Author Topic: Hawaii votes to allow motorcycle shoulder passing  (Read 777 times)

Offline bigdt73

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Re: Hawaii votes to allow motorcycle shoulder passing
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2018, 07:45:22 pm »
Just my two cents, but I distinctly remember reading the motorcycle instruction guide provided by the DMV that motorcycles are to be treated just like any other motor vehicle and entitled to the entire width of the lane.  For the life of me, I'll never understand why some motorcyclists want more rights than the other motor vehicles on the road.  We say we want the cars to "share" the road but we want special consideration all the time, i.e. shoulder usage, lane splitting, special MC lanes, etc...  I can understand why some would want that, but what happened to "sharing the road" and equal treatment?  So you're stuck in traffic?  Isn't everyone else?  So it's hot on the bike?  Isn't the price we pay for doing something we love?

I guess I will never understand the need for the special treatment other than some people feel like they are "owed" special treatment because they are on two wheels instead of four... Cagers are bad enough without special rules.  Why enrage them further?  Again, just my two cents.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Hawaii votes to allow motorcycle shoulder passing
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2018, 08:38:54 pm »
but we want special consideration all the time, i.e. shoulder usage, lane splitting, special MC lanes, etc...  I can understand why some would want that, but what happened to "sharing the road" and equal treatment?  So you're stuck in traffic?  Isn't everyone else?  So it's hot on the bike?  Isn't the price we pay for doing something we love?

I just want to not die from heat stroke wearing protective gear and helmet, in the full sun, with no wind, and cars all around spewing tons of additional heat, while cagers are sitting in air conditioned lounge recliners reading their phones, listening to 7 speaker stereos, in the shade, in shorts, and sipping nice beverages, usually without having to cycle a clutch constantly, during the extreme delays.

On other fronts, motorcyclists push for HOV access, and that seems reasonable, just like tolls should be less.  Motorcycles are only a fraction of the weight, emissions, gas use, and size of cars, and only a fraction of the wear on the roads.  Many can only [or reasonably only] carry one person.  And in many situations, they take up far less parking space.

I certainly don't expect special motorcycle lanes, that really is unreasonable.
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Offline gPink

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Re: Hawaii votes to allow motorcycle shoulder passing
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2018, 05:13:32 am »
Don't forget we can get a high speed police escort any time we want....That's special...   8)
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Offline bigdt73

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Re: Hawaii votes to allow motorcycle shoulder passing
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2018, 08:48:26 pm »
I just want to not die from heat stroke wearing protective gear and helmet, in the full sun, with no wind, and cars all around spewing tons of additional heat, while cagers are sitting in air conditioned lounge recliners reading their phones, listening to 7 speaker stereos, in the shade, in shorts, and sipping nice beverages, usually without having to cycle a clutch constantly, during the extreme delays.

On other fronts, motorcyclists push for HOV access, and that seems reasonable, just like tolls should be less.  Motorcycles are only a fraction of the weight, emissions, gas use, and size of cars, and only a fraction of the wear on the roads.  Many can only [or reasonably only] carry one person.  And in many situations, they take up far less parking space.

I certainly don't expect special motorcycle lanes, that really is unreasonable.

I agree with you regarding the tolls as well as the HOV access.  Here in Arizona we have many HOV lanes that allow motorcycles all the time and it really is a godsend even thought I sometimes get the "evil eye" from the cagers.

Offline Deziner

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Re: Hawaii votes to allow motorcycle shoulder passing
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2018, 11:38:44 pm »
I've only ridden in Arizona for about 35 years now so I may not know as much as others about riding in the heat. At times, I find it quite uncomfortable when stuck in traffic and the temperature is well in excess of 100 degrees. Maybe it's just me....

I also spend a lot of time on the Left Coast. Been there several hundred times over the years, both riding and driving. Usually riding. I'm sure I have thousands of miles splitting lanes and for the vast majority of those miles, have usually been given more than enough room to split lanes safely. I can say without reservation that in all but a few instances, the a$$holes that crowded me had OTHER THAN CALIFORNIA PLATES. Usually AZ or NV tags.

Please don't go on about special privileges. Unless, of course, you bring up the 1 ton extended cab, 8 foot bed dually with just the driver in it that takes up as much room as at least 4 motorcycles. Or the motorhome that takes up as much as 8. (Unless it's towing a huge trailer then it's up to about 12 motorcycles worth of road.) Or special parking for "Low Emitting, Fuel Efficient Vehicles" that motorcycles are prohibited from using. Or all of the Handicapped spots being used by people, and I use that term loosely, too daggum fat to walk to the store. Or bicycle lanes. Or pedestrians crossing the street with the "Don't Walk" sign flashing while they mess up traffic. I could go on and on, but I digress.

If you don't want to split lanes, don't. No one is forcing you to do so. Don't do anything that you don't feel safe doing. I know good and well that every time I ride my motorcycle may be my last. I accept that. If you're going to ride,  you're gonna go down. Believe it. Motorcycling it self is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, extremely unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, and/or incompetence. Of the motorcyclist AND those around him. Riding at a snail's pace in traffic readily lends itself to inattention. I have never been anything but ON TOP OF MY GAME  when splitting lanes. Or riding fast. That's just me.

All of that aside, I would much rather split lanes than ride on the shoulder.
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Offline Poseidon

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Re: Hawaii votes to allow motorcycle shoulder passing
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2018, 05:33:46 pm »
I've only ridden in Arizona for about 35 years now so I may not know as much as others about riding in the heat. At times, I find it quite uncomfortable when stuck in traffic and the temperature is well in excess of 100 degrees. Maybe it's just me....

I also spend a lot of time on the Left Coast. Been there several hundred times over the years, both riding and driving. Usually riding. I'm sure I have thousands of miles splitting lanes and for the vast majority of those miles, have usually been given more than enough room to split lanes safely. I can say without reservation that in all but a few instances, the a$$holes that crowded me had OTHER THAN CALIFORNIA PLATES. Usually AZ or NV tags.

Please don't go on about special privileges. Unless, of course, you bring up the 1 ton extended cab, 8 foot bed dually with just the driver in it that takes up as much room as at least 4 motorcycles. Or the motorhome that takes up as much as 8. (Unless it's towing a huge trailer then it's up to about 12 motorcycles worth of road.) Or special parking for "Low Emitting, Fuel Efficient Vehicles" that motorcycles are prohibited from using. Or all of the Handicapped spots being used by people, and I use that term loosely, too daggum fat to walk to the store. Or bicycle lanes. Or pedestrians crossing the street with the "Don't Walk" sign flashing while they mess up traffic. I could go on and on, but I digress.

If you don't want to split lanes, don't. No one is forcing you to do so. Don't do anything that you don't feel safe doing. I know good and well that every time I ride my motorcycle may be my last. I accept that. If you're going to ride,  you're gonna go down. Believe it. Motorcycling it self is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, extremely unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, and/or incompetence. Of the motorcyclist AND those around him. Riding at a snail's pace in traffic readily lends itself to inattention. I have never been anything but ON TOP OF MY GAME  when splitting lanes. Or riding fast. That's just me.

All of that aside, I would much rather split lanes than ride on the shoulder.

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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Hawaii votes to allow motorcycle shoulder passing
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2018, 11:04:55 am »
In VA there is a lobbying effort afoot to allow MC to use the shoulder in a traffic stopped condition to get to the nearest exit.  We'll be lucky if that gets through.  Using the shoulder now during stopped traffic for any vehicle is a reckless driving ticket.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Hawaii votes to allow motorcycle shoulder passing
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2018, 12:29:35 pm »
In VA there is a lobbying effort afoot to allow MC to use the shoulder in a traffic stopped condition to get to the nearest exit.

Seems like a reasonable minimum to me.

Quote
We'll be lucky if that gets through.  Using the shoulder now during stopped traffic for any vehicle is a reckless driving ticket.

Yeah, I will risk it in (and have) the few times necessary to prevent heat stroke.  Turned on emergency flashers and crawled at something like 15 MPH.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Hawaii votes to allow motorcycle shoulder passing
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2018, 04:42:58 pm »
In VA there is a lobbying effort afoot to allow MC to use the shoulder in a traffic stopped condition to get to the nearest exit.  We'll be lucky if that gets through.  Using the shoulder now during stopped traffic for any vehicle is a reckless driving ticket.

when I left Va. in '11, they still had a law prohibiting 2 bikes in one lane, side by side at any time, or EVEN pulling up side by side at an intersection...

I don't recall that changing either, but I don't care about Va. laws anymore...

they only ticket those they wish to, when they wish to do it...
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Hawaii votes to allow motorcycle shoulder passing
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2018, 09:52:36 pm »
when I left Va. in '11, they still had a law prohibiting 2 bikes in one lane, side by side at any time

Which to me, seems very sensible/logical/reasonable.  And even if not the law, I would always stagger because it is much safer.

But this tidbit is interesting:

"two motorcyclists riding side by side in the same lane [...] was legalized by the General Assembly of Virginia in 2012."  THAT I didn't know.  I still won't do it, however.

Quote
or EVEN pulling up side by side at an intersection...

THAT I have *never* heard of before.  I have never, ever seen bike pairs not coming to an eventual stop together, side-by-side.  First person stops, next person then pulls next to and stops.  If there are more than 2, then the 3rd person stops behind the 1st, and 4th behind the 2nd, etc.  However, I would NEVER do that to an unrelated motorcyclist I didn't know and wasn't originally riding with (like one I just happen to encounter when riding alone); I would stop behind him.

I searched for information, and the laws seem unclear.  I then read the entire VA motorcycle handbook
https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/webdoc/pdf/dmv2.pdf  and it says NOTHING about how to stop in a group!

But, by extension, if two motorcycles can ride abreast legally (called "lane splitting"), then of course they can stop next to each other.  Filtering (riding between cars) is absolutely illegal in most states, including VA.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 05:51:34 am by maxtog »
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Offline Poseidon

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Re: Hawaii votes to allow motorcycle shoulder passing
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2018, 04:04:23 am »
Which to me, seems very sensible/logical/reasonable.  And even if not the law, I would always stagger because it is much safer.

But this tidbit is interesting:

"two motorcyclists riding side by side in the same lane [...] was legalized by the General Assembly of Virginia in 2012."  THAT I didn't know.  I still won't do it, however.

THAT I have *never* heard of before.  I have never, ever seen bike pairs not coming to an eventual stop together, side-by-side.  First person stops, next person then pulls next to and stops.  If there are more than 2, then the 3rd person stops behind the 1st, and 4th behind the 2nd, etc.  However, I would NEVER do that to an unrelated motorcyclist I didn't know and wasn't originally riding with (like one I just happen to encounter when riding alone); I would stop behind him.

I searched for information, and the laws seem unclear.  I then read the entire VA motorcycle handbook
https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/webdoc/pdf/dmv2.pdf  and it says NOTHING about how to stop in a group!

But, by extension, if two motorcycles can ride abreast legally (called "lane splitting"), then of course they can stop next to each other.  Filtering (riding between cars) is absolutely illegal in almost all states, including VA.

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Offline maxtog

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Re: Hawaii votes to allow motorcycle shoulder passing
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2018, 05:56:34 am »
That diagram is actually "filtering" (yes, the definitions are all over the map and vary greatly), but it shows that it is only actually, positively legal in 1 state- CA.  In 12 other states it is "ambiguous", so you very well could be ticketed.  In theory, you have the right to do most anything not specifically prohibited by law, so you shouldn't need a law stating filtering is legal for it to be legal.  Of course, in theory, the Federal government is supposed to have only the powers listed in the Constitution, but we see how that has worked out.  In any case, there are lots of traffic laws that contain wording like "safe and proper" or "reasonable" and such, which leave interpretation completely open.

I imagine "splitting" (riding abreast), on the other hand, is legal in most states, but not sure (and unable to find any information)...
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Offline Poseidon

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Re: Hawaii votes to allow motorcycle shoulder passing
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2018, 08:57:47 am »
That diagram is actually "filtering" (yes, the definitions are all over the map and vary greatly), but it shows that it is only actually, positively legal in 1 state- CA.  In 12 other states it is "ambiguous", so you very well could be ticketed.  In theory, you have the right to do most anything not specifically prohibited by law, so you shouldn't need a law stating filtering is legal for it to be legal.  Of course, in theory, the Federal government is supposed to have only the powers listed in the Constitution, but we see how that has worked out.  In any case, there are lots of traffic laws that contain wording like "safe and proper" or "reasonable" and such, which leave interpretation completely open.

I imagine "splitting" (riding abreast), on the other hand, is legal in most states, but not sure (and unable to find any information)...

If this quote in the article below is accurate, it is now legal everywhere except VT.

"Virginia will become the 49th state to accommodate two-abreast riding. Vermont remains the only state to prohibit the practice."

Here is a link to the article I pulled it from.

https://patch.com/virginia/fredericksburg/new-law-lets-motorcyclists-ride-side-by-side
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Hawaii votes to allow motorcycle shoulder passing
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2018, 09:50:47 am »
If this quote in the article below is accurate, it is now legal everywhere except VT.

Good article/find.

I have been riding for something like 22 years now and I have never seen pairs stop behind each other, nor trained to do so, or seen anything that said one should!  Has anyone reading this thread heard of such a thing?  I knew it was not legal nor safe to DRIVE abreast, but nothing about it being illegal to come to a stop that way.

I guess it was just not enforced or ambiguous and/and generally not addressed in training or manuals.  Learn something new all the time.  I am glad it is corrected now (since 2012).
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Hawaii votes to allow motorcycle shoulder passing
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2018, 03:55:34 pm »
If this quote in the article below is accurate, it is now legal everywhere except VT.

"Virginia will become the 49th state to accommodate two-abreast riding. Vermont remains the only state to prohibit the practice."

Here is a link to the article I pulled it from.

https://patch.com/virginia/fredericksburg/new-law-lets-motorcyclists-ride-side-by-side

well, the timing of the passage for the law change, occurred just after I moved back to Ohio...

I do know the whole ridiculous law was being voraciously opposed to by my attourney's firm, as they spearheaded numerous law changes in the last 15+ years... extremely good attorneys, that cared about motorcyclists more than just making a $$$$ on it.
https://motorcyclelawgroup.com/

Tom's brother Joe, represented me in another case, and in talking with Tom, he did tell me they were actively pushing for the 'two bikes / one lane' repeal...
that was in 2010-2011.

they did push thru the 'm/c allowed in H.O.V. lane' law revision, which was another stupid restriction on m/c riders travelling the D.C. corridor on Rt 95.

I do know for a fact tho, that prior to my move, it WAS a moving violation to be paired up at a stop light/sign/intersection; I was sitting in the right half of my lane (left lane, for left turn on arrow signal) at a light, waiting for a clear shot to turn left, correctly positioned, and had some Pirate roll up next to me on the left, so he could take advantage of the turn when I turned, simultaneously... and when we both turned, about 200 feet down the road we were stopped by a local LEO, who was sitting at the intersection..watching it all happen..while talking on his cell phone....(who by the way, turned on his lights, and siren, just so he could run the red light he was sitting at, to catch us, and ticket us..)..

I talked my way out of it, as I explained "I did nothing wrong... ticket the other guy....I don't know him from Shirley Temple, and as you clearly watched him roll up in place, and complete the turn, and pursued to accommodate, it's a no brainer", which he promptly did... and I lucked out...  I guess being fully geared up, and older, and on a quiet proper motorcycle may have played in also...

I've never been a proponent of side by side riding, even here in Ohio, and I can count the number of times where after stopping behind someone I was riding with, slowly rolled up adjacent to let them know something, but never pulled away from a light simultaneously. I still stop behind a stopped rider, set off to the side so I can see their face and eyes in their mirror (so I know they can see me), every time I come upon this scenario.

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