Author Topic: Schnitz Racing ECU flash  (Read 3118 times)

Offline FIX UR CRITTER

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Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« on: August 23, 2018, 09:36:38 pm »

I have no desire to bash any other company or product. I just want to share MY experience with an ECU reflash. And give a thumbs up to good service and a good product.

I searched the forum first and came across 3 options mentioned often and see no need to name them. Each charge $350 plus shipping, which to me is a good chunk of change.

I searched some more on the internet and found a place called Schnitz racing.
They offered a reflash to improve performance for $75 plus shipping.

I researched and debated, spoke to one of the $350 guys and he convinced me that I was trying to compare a Mercedes to a Yugo.. I was going to go with the more expensive one, but shipping and payment restrictions made it much more convenient to go with Schnitz. I figure for an all in price of $100 it was worth a try. the $300 difference is enough to buy a set of tires.

I should mention that the $75 is for stock bike. If you want it tuned to aftermarket pipes it is an additional $125

One of the complaints I heard of Schnitz is they are not great returning emails.. While this may or may not  be true, they were very responsive via phone and the turn around on the unit was super quick. Shipped from Florida to Indiana on Friday and I had it back in my hands the next Thursday – total of $22 shipping.

Got home and went for a quick ride (started raining) but I could tell a difference immediately and felt a more powerful, smoother and more responsive bike. I am heading to the mountains next week and can’t wait to give it the full test.

Will give an update.
Just wanted to provide another option for riders who want to try the less expensive option first.

Prevent a litter, Fix ur Critter
PLEASE neuter all your pets.. there are millions of starving strays that wish you did.
'08 C-14, '08 Bandit 1250
'08 SV650, '07 YZ250F

Offline katata1100

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2018, 10:20:06 pm »
Here’s the problem-
Unless you have used the other three tuners , you really don’t have anything other than stock tuning
to compare to.
I was pretty happy when I got Guhl tuning back in the day; it open the flies sooner and wow, bike felt stronger off the line. Yup, very very happy.
Then I got shoodsben mountain and wow, way better, better all across rpm range. I can’t say it’s any better or worse than Ivan’s , I’d have to pay $350+ to make that statement.
I guess you get my drift.
In my mind, before putting CC down on Schnitz , I’d remember that both Ivan and Steve probably have put more time into their tunes.
But who knows? Maybe Schnitz is better, but I’m not going spend the coin to find out.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2018, 10:45:57 pm »
Here’s the problem- Unless you have used the other three tuners , you really don’t have anything other than stock tuning to compare to.

That is very true.  And hard metrics such as dyno graphs, 0-60 times, and MPG can't show or explain all that good reflashing does (or doesn't do).  Lots of extremely relevant things are subjective like that, though.

It is a shame the tuners all don't offer deep discounts to reflash those who already have one of their competitor's products, since most people (me included) have a hard time justifying the price/risk a second flash (much less a third time) and thus are likely to never become their customer, anyway.  It would be a good industry for that model, since the ACTUAL flashing costs very little (the labor, shipping, and liability is small, it is the research and development that cost so much and need to be covered....  a lot like medications, books, movies, music).  And doing so shows extreme confidence, since it will foster more reviews from people who really CAN compare stock to A and to B (and/or to C).

I think it would be very difficult to "quantify" the effectiveness of a flash.  But if I had to just GUESS, I would say most any reflash will give you that 70-80% of "greatness."  Which is why I strongly encourage ANY Concours owner to reflash- whatever product they choose is almost a certain huge positive.  And I think the value of that is easily in the $300 range.  But if seeking that last 20 to 30% and you are already at that 70-80% level, the value can't be in the $300 range ADDITIONAL anymore, at least not for many or perhaps most people.  It is like spending $30 on an HD Bluray of a good movie and then being asked to fork out another $30 to buy a 4K Bluray of the same movie a few years later.  (Someone the other day called me the "King of analogies" :) )

Competition is great, though!  I really hope that if/when I ever do get a different bike (or next generation of Concours, if ever one happens), such a vibrant market for reflashing exists,  because I just can't imagine being stuck with lackluster and non-linear performance and/or non-responsiveness and/or non-smoothness on any motorcycle at this point.  And given the restrictions and compromises the bike manufacturers must make, I have no doubt that most, if not all, models will continue to be hobbled in one way or another.

Anyway, to the OP (original poster): Congrats on the jump and do keep us updated!
Guhl ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, HID, helmet locks, Garmin Zumo 450, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,  Tourmaster Flex II

Offline blue72beetle

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2018, 04:58:03 am »
Hmm, I didn't realize he had a Concours flash. He's just down the highway from me, and I had him do my GSXS-1000F. The difference was amazing. I know with the GSXS, he had one on the dyno and that's how he developed the flash. I might give him a call and ask him about the C14 one.

Offline FIX UR CRITTER

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2018, 10:31:47 am »
To katata, i never said schnitz was better, obviously i cant compare. Just sharing that there was another option for cheap old coots like me.. I am happy to get maybe 50% of benefit for 20% of cost.. Percentages totally made up, but hopefully point made
Prevent a litter, Fix ur Critter
PLEASE neuter all your pets.. there are millions of starving strays that wish you did.
'08 C-14, '08 Bandit 1250
'08 SV650, '07 YZ250F

Offline fartymarty

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2018, 02:39:17 pm »
I am happy to get maybe 50% of benefit for 20% of cost.. Percentages totally made up, but hopefully point made.

Point made.  :thumbs:  ;)

Yeah, not a common theme in either C14 forum. Most want to think they have the best, and will tout that they do. That's how many of the typing flaming wars have started, especially on the other forum.
I see many other bikes in your signature FUC (hmm troublesome initials) FixUrC', however no mention of a KLR..so how far in your past was there one? I'm sure there was one back there somewhere in your past just from your statementabout 50% performance for 20% of the cost.  ;D  8) That kind of thinking is pretty much ingrained/adapted into every KLR owner that's owned one for more than 6 months.  :rotflmao:

Offline Conniesaki

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2018, 02:40:39 pm »
Here’s the problem-
Unless you have used the other three tuners , you really don’t have anything other than stock tuning
to compare to.
I was pretty happy when I got Guhl tuning back in the day; it open the flies sooner and wow, bike felt stronger off the line. Yup, very very happy.
Then I got shoodsben mountain and wow, way better, better all across rpm range. I can’t say it’s any better or worse than Ivan’s , I’d have to pay $350+ to make that statement.
I guess you get my drift.
In my mind, before putting CC down on Schnitz , I’d remember that both Ivan and Steve probably have put more time into their tunes.
But who knows? Maybe Schnitz is better, but I’m not going spend the coin to find out.

You're saying not comparing multiple flashes is a problem, but that's a whole lot more money. And where do you stop? Let's say you pay $350 for Steve's, then decide to try Guhl's for another $350, but maybe decide you actually like Steve's better. Oh, and here's another guy now, maybe Ivan, should you try his now for another $350?

For 75 bucks total, the OP is very happy with his performance gain. That's great, and doesn't seem like a problem.

At some point the Law of Diminishing Returns applies, and I suspect it would be immediately after the $75 OP just spent  :thumbs: It's not like the stock C14 is slow or runs poorly, so for $75 OP woke his up and can feel it and is satisfied. For another $350, would he really be able to tell another performance increase, and would it be worth 4 times what he just paid. Doesn't seem likely.

Offline katata1100

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2018, 01:47:49 pm »
All depends on what schnitz does. If they only just open the flies, even though it will feel stronger off the line , there is still a lot of performance left of the table.
I didn’t pay $75 for Guhl, I paid $400. All they did was open flies.
Felt great. Shodaben cost $350 and had fuel and ( I think) timing tweaks.
It felt much stronger than Guhl.
Whether there is anything to gain after a $75 schnitz tune depends on whether they also altered timing/fuel and how effective it was.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2018, 03:20:02 pm »
I didn’t pay $75 for Guhl, I paid $400. All they did was open flies.

I believe they also tweaked the fuel & timing maps.   It is still pretty basic, however, at least compared to what I believe Steve (Shodaben) is doing.  I am confident Steve is far more creative with the secondaries (and probably other maps) than Guhl (unless there are newer Guhl versions that I know about or have, which I kinda doubt).
Guhl ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, HID, helmet locks, Garmin Zumo 450, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,  Tourmaster Flex II

Offline katata1100

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2018, 03:46:18 pm »
When I talked to Guhl , he said he touched up fuel , but very minor and did nothing at all to the timing.
In other words, what you’re getting is just earlier opening flies.
The diference between Guhl and shodaben is as big if not bigger than Guhl from stock.Guhl feels stronger than stock up to 2500rpm, but shodaben is stronger up to redline.
The dyno graphs show this, seat of the pants does too.
If schnitz has similar performance for $75, its a bargain.If it is just earlier flies, I’d rather pay the extra $275 for complete tune.
It’s scary easy to accidentally get the bike to pull a wheelie entering the freeway and I wouldn’t want to lose that.  ;D

Offline maxtog

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2018, 04:46:14 pm »
Stop making me want it!
Guhl ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, HID, helmet locks, Garmin Zumo 450, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,  Tourmaster Flex II

Offline khager01

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2018, 07:16:26 pm »
Good  thread and a lot of good answers here. I just wanted to say if somebody happens to live near Steve or Ivans shop they could probably go test drive their Flash.  I know sometime this year I think it was Memorial Day weekend Ivan was offering demos of his Flash if you went to his shop in New York .  I am not sure how he was doing it, if he had an extra ECU or if he was just letting you demo his bike. 

It would be nice if they both offered a service whereas you can pay $50 to test-drive their Flash and the remaining balance say $300 if you decided to keep it. 

 I have Ivans Flash and I love it best $350 I ever spent.  I'm sure there's not enough difference between Steve's or Ivans Flash to cause anybody to want to spend an extra $350, but if I had the Scnitz flash and  I was only in for $75 well let's just say I am the kind of guy they would pay an extra 80% to get the remaining 20%.   $350 is not a lot of money to me but to each their own.

Offline FIX UR CRITTER

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2018, 08:04:34 pm »
 "well let's just say I am the kind of guy they would pay an extra 80% to get the remaining 20%."

I like the twist you put on that... and appreciate those that feel that way.. everyone I know calls me cheap- I prefer frugal..

anyway- it hit me that the benefit of different flashes, like so many things; seats, windshields, etc. is based on user preferences.
We all prefer different things from our riding experience, my bike for example has never seen red line.

Anyway for those that asked what Schnitz says they do, from
the paper that came back with my ECU says
FEATURES:
Increased rev limiter +500rpm - i dont care
Top speed limiter removed - i dont care
Gear based fuel trims removed gears 1-3 - sounds good
Secondary throttle blades open more aggressively and stay open- sounds good

I am itching to get back on her for more flash testing and to test my brand new touring seat. It has been raining for almost 3 straight days... South Florida in summer
Prevent a litter, Fix ur Critter
PLEASE neuter all your pets.. there are millions of starving strays that wish you did.
'08 C-14, '08 Bandit 1250
'08 SV650, '07 YZ250F

Offline katata1100

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2018, 08:14:05 pm »
Sounds like the only thing they did performance wise, is open those flies early. Still, at least it’s $300 less than Guhl.

Offline kzz1king

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2018, 03:50:06 am »
I want to know how all these bikes become wheelie machines. I don't think I have ever floated the wheel on my stock or flashed bike. What am I doing wrong ?
2010 CONCOURS
1974 Z-1