Author Topic: Schnitz Racing ECU flash  (Read 3117 times)

Offline maxtog

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2018, 06:34:49 am »
I want to know how all these bikes become wheelie machines. I don't think I have ever floated the wheel on my stock or flashed bike. What am I doing wrong ?

It is more what you are doing right :)  Doesn't matter if it is flashed or not.

If you want to wheelie, just turn off traction control, shift your weight back and use a lot of throttle and RPM, especially from a stop.  Pretty much any reasonable bike can do a wheelie, at least by dumping the clutch.  I have NEVER attempted that (and never will), but have come close, a tiny "floater" on front wheel, by accident, a few times (and that was with TC on).

I don't think one can "stoppie" on the Gen2, because ABS will not allow it, and unlike traction control, ABS can't be turned off.  Even despite that (like Gen1), the C14 is heavy and has a long wheelbase, making it very difficult.
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Offline Rubber_Snake

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2018, 09:59:12 am »
I don't think one can "stoppie" on the Gen2, because ABS will not allow it, and unlike traction control, ABS can't be turned off.  Even despite that (like Gen1), the C14 is heavy and has a long wheelbase, making it very difficult.

This is an old pic.  Definitely not me!  This must be a Gen 1.  I don’t even know if it’s legit, but it’s a cool pic nonetheless. 
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Offline khager01

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2018, 10:01:31 am »
I want to know how all these bikes become wheelie machines. I don't think I have ever floated the wheel on my stock or flashed bike. What am I doing wrong ?

You must be doing something wrong!  All I have to do on mine is grab a handful of throttle at 3K-4K RPM's in 1st gear and it will easily lift the front wheel with K-TRAC off.

 No clutch action needed, nor pulling back on the bars, or any other heroics. 

It would do it stock too,  but not near as easy. 

I'll also add when I say grab a handful,  do it quickly,  don't just roll on the throttle,  but snatch it!

Offline fartymarty

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2018, 10:54:09 am »
 
  This must be a Gen 1.   

It's a BMW.  ???

Offline maxtog

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2018, 11:19:55 am »

It's a BMW.  ???

You beat me to it.  I believe it is an R1200RT.   But, in fairness, it is a large, sport-tourer, so at least the physics are probably similar.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2018, 11:23:46 am »
Wot's all this about flame wars? First I am hearing of it.....

 :rotflmao:

Though of late things do seem to have been a lot better.

Back on the subject at hand, it is just a typical human condition that most of us tout a product we like and somehow or other, without a shred of evidence or real knowledge, proclaim one better than the rest or the others without ever having owned or even used any competitive products. Lots of people have different flashes but few seem to have had more than one, and far fewer yet have had all or even most of them. So the only factual thing that <most> users can say is that they like or dislike the flash they have and point out that particular ones' features and / or flaws. As I said, pretty typical human nature and we tend to do it with all products; I guess  my favorite is when someone has a problem with a given product, often times it seems to be a vehicle of some sort, he / she then goes on to proclaim ALL of the vehicles made by that company are deficient and further specify those deficiencies; for example, someone has a transmission failure on, say, a Buick and somehow ALL GM products are 'known' to have 'bad transmissions' or 'inferior transmissions compared to Brand X'. In the mass production world, I like to call it the 'one in a row' syndrome: set up a production line, tweak it for as long as it takes, make one acceptable product (part or an entire assembly such as a car), pronounce it good and hit the gigantic green GO button and run a million of them. :-)

Brian


.... That's how many of the typing flaming wars have started, especially on the other forum.

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Offline FIX UR CRITTER

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2018, 08:36:29 pm »
Hello Everyone

Wanted to give an update regarding the Schnitz ECU reflash.
I  noticed a difference right away, it seems more responsive right off of stop. The thing that kept coming to mind was that the bike seemed less restricted.
We rode for about 50 miles mostly highway .  I found myself riding faster and at a higher rpm than normal. I usually keep the bike between 4-5 k in 5th gear. That seems the smoothest for cruising with the wife on back. Today I was consistently in the  5500-6500k range in 4th gear and it felt as smooth. I found myself getting into triple digits without even trying.
 It felt as if  shifting was some how smoother.  Bottom line – it is definitely an improvement, worth $75. The real test will be my 1000 mile mountain trip next week.

One of the things that I wanted from the flash was to remove some of the subtle vibes in bars and seat.. This did not seem to help in that area.

I often feel that people exaggerate how great a product is. That is the feeling I got when people described Steve and Ivan’s flash. Kept hearing the words “day and night” difference etc. Well that is not what I experienced so I am still curious about Steve or Ivan’s. I am going to see if a used ECU from another bike can be flashed for my bike so I can compare them .

I am willing to admit that Steve, Ivan’s and Guhl  reflash may be “better” and have more development time behind them, but I am sure glad that people have an option that is 1/5 the cost. As someone else mentioned,  the competition will be good

Also tried the Kawi  touring seat today- very intrigued, will need some more back to back comparisons with my Russell DL.
But the touring is definitely better than stock for both rider and passenger regarding sliding forward and  we both noticed that it eats up bumps, making for a more comfortable ride.
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Offline Rubber_Snake

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2018, 09:55:30 pm »
You beat me to it.  I believe it is an R1200RT.   But, in fairness, it is a large, sport-tourer, so at least the physics are probably similar.
Doh!!
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Offline fartymarty

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2018, 11:35:10 pm »
Doh!!

Awww it's OK, we understand how it is. After you guys retire, all you can see is the uniform. The days of being a professional observer are gone. :salute:  :chugbeer:

Offline khager01

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2018, 08:13:07 am »

I often feel that people exaggerate how great a product is. That is the feeling I got when people described Steve and Ivan’s flash. Kept hearing the words “day and night” difference etc. Well that is not what I experienced so I am still curious about Steve or Ivan’s. I am going to see if a used ECU from another bike can be flashed for my bike so I can compare them .


You can find a used engine ecu on flea-bay pretty cheap.  I think you would have to take it to a dealer or find someone with a KDS tool to program the KIPASS ecu to recognize it. 

Also the 2015-2018 may be different or at least the programming is different to recognize the O2 sensors, also fuel maps may be different between model years

Online katata1100

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2018, 08:20:43 am »
“ am willing to admit that Steve, Ivan’s and Guhl  reflash may be “better” and have more development time behind them, but I am sure glad that people have an option that is 1/5 the cost. As someone else mentioned,  the competition will be good”

Guhl will be no different than what you have. But, I think you’re seeing for yourself that all the gains you see are simply from opening the flies sooner. Without tweaks to timing and fuel, your ho/tq is still same as stock.
Steve’s tune will give 19hp more at peak. That , along with hp/tq  gains across the range, is something you can definitely feel. Eventually, you’ll get the urge to pony up more $ to get that power
that schnitz left on the table.

Offline fartymarty

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2018, 11:40:44 am »
I often feel that people exaggerate how great a product is. That is the feeling I got when people described Steve and Ivan’s flash. Kept hearing the words “day and night” difference etc. Well that is not what I experienced so I am still curious about Steve or Ivan’s. I am going to see if a used ECU from another bike can be flashed for my bike so I can compare them .

I completely agree with that first sentence. Is there a night and day difference between a typical 250cc bike and a 1400cc bike? Yes there is. Is there a night and day difference between a stock c14 and one that makes more (what 19Hp?) power and runs smoother in the lower rpm range. Not in my opinion. Perhaps people need to stand out in the sun at noon and then return to the same spot at midnight to refresh themselves as to what a night and day difference really means. After the Guhl flash and all the rave reviews it was getting (back then), I was thinking about the story of the emperor's clothes after I had received mine. I wasn't even sure it had been really flashed. Now when I got the decel flash from SISF, it was instantly noticeable. Definitely an improvement, but night and day difference?...not in my opinion. Perhaps folks are confusing night and day difference from above the arctic circle with that below the arctic circle?

I still agree with the 50% (+/- 10-15%) performance gain for 20% of the cost, it isn't a bad investment. Not very noticeable to my insensitive a$$, but to each their own (a$$ sensitivity that is).

One of the things that I wanted from the flash was to remove some of the subtle vibes in bars and seat.. This did not seem to help in that area.

I'm not sure that can be fixed by a flash, maybe. I think some have re-torqued the engine mounting bolts to find relief in that area. Might be something to look into after your trip. I've never noticed it on mine, but then perhaps my a$$ insensitivity extends through up to my fingertips? My wife says I'm totally an insensitive a$$, but then she loves me, so she might be biased.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2018, 04:22:20 pm »
But, I think you’re seeing for yourself that all the gains you see are simply from opening the flies sooner.

I will confident that it is not any actual increase in peak horse power that anyone will notice.  The gains are usually small on what is already a lot of horsepower, and few people ever go WOT at high-enough RPM, anyway to ever realize such power.  It is the delivery of the existing power and the *immediacy* thereof... the elimination of the lack of responsiveness, that is so shockingly noticeable after any flash that "fixes" the secondary flies (and thereby removing the restrictions imposed by fuel economy regulations, noise regulations, and emissions control; most of which Kawasaki MUST comply with; and perhaps they did a poor job at it in the process).  Everything else is a side-bonus..... and those side bonuses given by a GOOD and well-developed flash can be many and quite desirable, but still pale in comparison to the elephant in the room (the faster and more complete opening of the flies).

For this next part, I can only speak in speculation, but I *believe* the Guhl flash has little/few side-bonuses.  Of course I noticed and was thrilled by the elephant in the room; I doubt an extra 10 or 15 or even 20 peak horse power would matter much for me.  However, there are many places in the programming where it seems "rough", imprecise, overshoots, or is jerky (not smooth) or a little unpredictable.  Those are the things I am disappointed in (and noticed more after years of riding) and believe a flash like Steve's would probably address.  Putting on a Throttle Tamer did help, especially with the insanely oversensitive throttle at lower input and lower RPM.  But I think that only gave a partial solution and to only one of the things I noticed that aren't quite right.
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Online katata1100

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2018, 04:29:33 pm »
Power at start is psychologically noticeable. That is one reason why some cars come from the factory with touchy fuel pedals- that burst off the line makes it seem faster. Some tuners will tune an off/on (not gradual) response off the line to make it feel quicker.
But the difference between Guhl (and likely schnitz) and Steves' is pretty noticeable. I live at 5000' alt and to me, riding with this tune, bike has same power as it did with Guhl at sea level.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Schnitz Racing ECU flash
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2018, 04:33:03 pm »
After the Guhl flash and all the rave reviews it was getting (back then), I was thinking about the story of the emperor's clothes after I had received mine. I wasn't even sure it had been really flashed.

For me, it [Guhl flash] was a huge change and I was sure it was there.  I wasn't expecting a "totally different bike" kind of experience, though.  But it immediately got rid of that horrible lag and "sag" in the performance curve at lower RPM that was driving me crazy.  I had the EXACT SAME issue with my ZRX-11- it felt the same way, until I installed a jet kit and WHAM, it was just linear after that.  So if you know what it is was that was annoying, and had reasonable expectations, it was extremely noticeable and a "huge" change, at least with my driving style.  If you have a different driving style or weren't bothered by the stock behavior to start with, it might be much less noticeable.

Quote
Now when I got the decel flash from SISF, it was instantly noticeable. Definitely an improvement, but night and day difference?...not in my opinion. Perhaps folks are confusing night and day difference from above the arctic circle with that below the arctic circle?

:)  Well, subjectivity always comes across with wild variations.  Kinda like explaining pain or how delicious something is.  I know for sure that lots of things that annoy me or drive me crazy don't phase many other people at all, and vice-versa.
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