Author Topic: Oil collecting in intake manifold (putting flies back in)  (Read 795 times)

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Oil collecting in intake manifold (putting flies back in)
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2018, 03:24:09 pm »
verrrry interesting....
 ;)
If you haven't checked or replaced your air filter recently, and it has 15k or more miles on it, might want to replace that also, while you are in there... and especially if you are gonna get a flash from SISF.. to get the full benefit. (along with loosing the marble that was blocking the PAIR valve air, it won't pop with the flash, he has that all covered)
 :thumbs: :thumbs:

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Offline fartymarty

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Re: Oil collecting in intake manifold (putting flies back in)
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2018, 03:33:24 pm »
  Thank you gentlemen for the help!

Whoa! Whoa! ......whooooa there buddy. Let's be careful how you throw that G word around.
We Someone might have to get out the sword and start swingin' on this thread.

Offline gPink

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Re: Oil collecting in intake manifold (putting flies back in)
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2018, 04:16:33 pm »
Whoa! Whoa! ......whooooa there buddy. Let's be careful how you throw that G word around.
We Someone might have to get out the sword and start swingin' on this thread.
Not to worry...He's only been clubbing baby dragons lately.
Thank God for good men willing to do extreme violence.

Offline jimbob_sf

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Re: Oil collecting in intake manifold (putting flies back in)
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2018, 04:34:22 pm »
The air filter a K&N that I clean/oil every 6k miles.  I totally forgot about the plugged line while I had the fairings off this weekend.  I'll pull it apart again, fix the hoses, and report back in a day or two.  It may be Saturday before I get time to do that.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Oil collecting in intake manifold (putting flies back in)
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2018, 06:12:20 pm »
The air filter a K&N that I clean/oil every 6k miles. I totally forgot about the plugged line while I had the fairings off this weekend.  I'll pull it apart again, fix the hoses, and report back in a day or two.  It may be Saturday before I get time to do that.

This is kinda what I speak about, on doing diagnosis over the net.. and the propensity for "left out" stuff to prevail...
When I hear stuff like this all, i first off ask.."are you using a K&N, and how did you oil it?"

but, as Marty asked, and no response was made... I moved on, and didn't keep poking.. I should have. Marty has been here long enough, and knows the first thing we will ask is....;
Assuming there hasn't been an after market foam oil impregnated air filter being used, I'm drawing a blank....

maybe i should have asked you to 'mop up the oil', and show the oil (on the rag) to us, instead of just saying mop it up and continue on.. my fault for not doing so.. but, if it was reddish, it would have said a lot, if it was just oil mist, yellowish, still would have told me "crank case vent".
Now, It's revealed you have in fact, a K&N, and have been "servicing it" at 6k mile intervals...
I have no idea how much oil you are applying, but, by Assumption once again, i assume you oiled it when you installed it... (these come pre-oiled... no further oiling was required...) and any cleaning and re-oiling, was done using the "plastic bubble filled with red oil" that came with the filter... and everytime it was oiled, you made it look "RED"...
K&N's, when used in cars, have a huge airflow duct, and most over oiling deposits along this duct.. In this bike, and all others, any over oiling will end up in the airbox. It will also affect performance, and in the case of a C14, even coat the sensors in the airbox...
The filters as they come, are designed for LONG miles between services, every 6k is telling me it has always been over oiled.
The good side, is that whatever air is passing thru the filter, is in fact clean, and dust free.. the downside is, a lot of oil vapor (not bad) is being sucked in also, and as the filter does it's job, and begins holding more dust, the engine wants to 'draw air', which it seems to have been doing thru the crank case vent line also...

I've used these filters in ALL my bikes since 1973.. and I still have the can of aerosol oil, which has been used on every filter, for thousands of miles, sitting half full on my bench.
I've tossed every "plastic bubble" of oil, into a bin, and probably have 20+, which were never used.
after cleaning a filter, using concentrated dish soap, and hot water, and drying the filter completely, I 'spray' the cotton untill its "PINK", not dripping red..(and not from 3" away like they show) which is what K&N says is correct... Red, on a bike filter, is simply too much oil.
https://www.knfilters.com/instructions/18627C_inst.pdf
https://www.knfilters.com/blog/ask-the-experts-at-kn-how-to-use-kn-air-filter-oil-how-much-oil-do-i-use

I don't use these filters on my C14, but do use them on everything else...
Pink is good
Red is over oiled.

pick up the aerosol spray, it's tons easier to use, and use correctly.

Please don't take this as something we (I specifically) are/am saying as something other than we always attempt to help, and now you can see a bit of how difficult it is to ascertain, and diagnose across the continent, via a computer, and actually you are learning something it took years for some of us, to figger' out, and put into simple terms...

it's that 'free prize' thing I always used, when sharing info.

best of luck, and I think you are well on the way to a better running bike.
Ride safe,

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline kzz1king

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Re: Oil collecting in intake manifold (putting flies back in)
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2018, 07:46:17 pm »
Year's back a buddy of mine put a K ~N in his Magna before a 200 mile ride. We were rolling along pretty good and  he run out of gas way before he should have. We had to soak as much of the oil out as we could of it until he got some place to re service it.
2010 CONCOURS
1974 Z-1

Offline jimbob_sf

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Re: Oil collecting in intake manifold (putting flies back in)
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2018, 04:28:54 pm »
Points taken on the K&N and zero offense taken.  In fact, thank you for taking the time to type it all out.

I clean, air dry (usually overnight), and spray the aerosol from a distance. I know these things don't need a lot.  Whenever I go into an engine part, I use white paper towels to see what color any residue/dirt/fluid is and a sniff never hurts.  The fluid was engine oil, without any inconsistency in color or viscosity.

I'll go back in a month or two and see what's there just to check.

MANY thanks for the time to help.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Oil collecting in intake manifold (putting flies back in)
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2018, 05:21:03 pm »
Points taken on the K&N and zero offense taken.  In fact, thank you for taking the time to type it all out.

I clean, air dry (usually overnight), and spray the aerosol from a distance. I know these things don't need a lot.  Whenever I go into an engine part, I use white paper towels to see what color any residue/dirt/fluid is and a sniff never hurts.  The fluid was engine oil, without any inconsistency in color or viscosity.

I'll go back in a month or two and see what's there just to check.

MANY thanks for the time to help.

sincerely you are very welcome,
the best 'payment' I ever recieve for sharing is the 'thanks' part.
I think you are well on the way to happy things.
You did really well, comeback, and tell what truley existed, and I thank you for that.

I think after 'pullin the marble', and putting her back to a point, and doing te cool flash mods, you will never have oil pooling in the air box...(well, making sure to blow that drain line out from top to bottom, with the cap off the "pill bottle' there, and also a quick spurt of air, from the airbox tru the hose that vents the crank case, with the oil filler cap OFF, should suffice.)

ride safe, and PLEASE, report back, and tell us the results.. it helps everyone here.
 I say this earnestly, as soo many people come here, for a free answer to an issue, and never come back to tell the results.., and we repeat this in an ongoing venture, to help.

don't disappear after it's fixed, please. And always feel free to ask, and share here.. it's why we are doing this...
(oh, and to argue about oil, tires, and other b/s, that doesn't really relate to bikes... )

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Oil collecting in intake manifold (putting flies back in)
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2018, 05:40:08 pm »
leave the pair hose blocked. it has nothing to do with the oil leak, and won't change anything either way with the flash. Steve

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Oil collecting in intake manifold (putting flies back in)
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2018, 06:43:44 pm »
leave the pair hose blocked. it has nothing to do with the oil leak, and won't change anything either way with the flash. Steve

thank you, and I agree, but I wanted him to put it back to OEM, which I know you have as a base point.., and if you supplied a flash, based on base point, it may effect it/.. ..no?
you and I know what I speak of. (I also asked because someone made a comment about the PAIR valve's "function", thus my enjoyment when it was said to be blocked, and actually not in the 'loop' as a cause..)
 That said, I know, just how much you have had to spend time, going over hidden points, to remain the Best Tuner, I know... .. luv  ya bro.

it's the little things that always fug us on analysis.

agreed?

(jeeeebus dude, come back here and help me dispel (clarify) some of the stuff people write here every day...myself included, because i'm old and my mind don't werk rite....sumtymz... PLEEEEEEEEZE....) :'( ;)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 03:04:34 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline maxtog

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Re: Oil collecting in intake manifold (putting flies back in)
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2018, 08:11:58 pm »
ride safe, and PLEASE, report back, and tell us the results.. it helps everyone here.
 I say this earnestly, as soo many people come here, for a free answer to an issue, and never come back to tell the results.., and we repeat this in an ongoing venture, to help.

+1 !!  It is how we learn
Guhl ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, HID, helmet locks, Garmin Zumo 450, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,  Tourmaster Flex II

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Oil collecting in intake manifold (putting flies back in)
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2018, 03:13:24 pm »
+1 !!  It is how we learn

 :thumbs: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

yep, that, and the fact we keep doing this, all our lives.....meh, we are just mere mortals...




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Offline jimbob_sf

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Re: Oil collecting in intake manifold (putting flies back in)
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2018, 11:31:06 am »
This is what happens when someone thinks they know what they are doing and does something that actually causes problems....

I pulled the steel ball out (it was the center of a mouse ball, not a marble), plugged in the ECU (mountain runner), adjusted the throttle cables, and it's running perfectly.  The decel popping is negligible.  The front end got light in 3rd gear at 7k+ rpm going up a hill on the highway.  Having the front end wiggle as the speedo blurs past 80 is absolutely hilarious.

Back to the smart guy.  Laugh with me on this.  If my bike had a real problem with that much oil collecting all the time, I'd have a lot more issues, right?  "You" kept on saying there may be other sources of the fluid I photographed.  Maybe this explains things...

Over the spring and summer, the bike started running rough at cold startup and was basically dangerous until it was warm.  It had the valves adjusted < 5k miles ago, so I assumed the engine was due for a Sea Foam soak treatment and additive to the gas.  This smart guy forgot that a month ago, I pulled the air filter and, wait for it, emptied a can of Sea Foam aerosol into the manifold.  I knew there was a drain hose, but didn't know the collector down by the shifter has a cap on it!  The collector and hose were full of a fluid that was less viscous than oil.  Duh.  The Sea Foam that didn't get sucked into the intake had filled the hose and was still sitting in the manifold to make the "lake" in my pictures.

I've sufficiently chastised myself for rushing through the foaming.  If you all hadn't persisted in poking at a story that didn't add up, I never would have kept looking at the problem.  THANK YOU!

Offline maxtog

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Re: Oil collecting in intake manifold (putting flies back in)
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2018, 03:20:55 pm »
LOL!  Great story.  Glad it is going well now.

PS- when mine starts to idle rough when cold, I run a tank with Techron additive through it and it clears it right up for another year :)  Seems to be one of those "snake oils" that actually works.
Guhl ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, HID, helmet locks, Garmin Zumo 450, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,  Tourmaster Flex II

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Oil collecting in intake manifold (putting flies back in)
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2018, 06:04:58 pm »
help us out here...
are you talking about the black linear area, in the photo, behind the velocity stacks?

I'm not seeing a 'pool'.
valve cover gasket ( as opposed to HEAD Gasket another misnomer,) doesn't equate either...
as they are external, and not related to the issue..(the weepage on the front is likely a bad o ring on the exhaust cam sensor up front.. very common.) again, not related.

maybe some blockage in the airbox drain line...? ( I assume this is what you are calling 'manifold', vs airbox...) which is what the photo shows...


 I have seen occasional plugging of the crankcase vent, that runs from under the airbox, to the crank case venting cover below it on the engine, but the only time oil ends up in the box via that hose, is on a turbocharged conversion, where the crankcase is pressurized... which ain't the case here..

wipe it all down, and replace the flies, as you were doing. check the drain line from the airbox, and the plastic collector bottle at the bottom, down on the left, by the idle adjuster screw, and tank drain..
and If in fact you were running a K&N filter, that was over oiled, stop using so much oil on it... go back to a factory airfilter for the next 20k miles, and re check.

not much to say, just from one poor photo, and a description like this...

has nothing to do with the cam chain tensioner either.... check the drain line and empty it, and blow air down thru it from the top, and re cap the bottom..( it can't really suck air back up, if it's capped.).

I guess reading the second response to your posting, and following the logic.... simply wasn't satisfying, or worth reading...

 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :banghead: :banghead: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :deadhorse: :rotflmao: :thumbs:

glad it all "worked out", in the end...... :finger_fing11: :finger_fing11: :chugbeer:

This is what happens when someone thinks they know what they are doing and does something that actually causes problems....

..... so I assumed the engine was due for a Sea Foam soak treatment and additive to the gas.  This smart guy forgot that a month ago, I pulled the air filter and, wait for it, emptied a can of Sea Foam aerosol into the manifold.  I knew there was a drain hose, but didn't know the collector down by the shifter has a cap on it!  The collector and hose were full of a fluid that was less viscous than oil.  Duh.  The Sea Foam that didn't get sucked into the intake had filled the hose and was still sitting in the manifold to make the "lake" in my pictures.

I've sufficiently chastised myself for rushing through the foaming.  If you all hadn't persisted in poking at a story that didn't add up, I never would have kept looking at the problem.  THANK YOU!

oh, and I would NEVER recommend spaying a can of SeaFoam, Into the airbox, or even into the air intake venturies on this model...  it simply doesn't do anything other than clean the throttle plates, or the intake path, but it can result in damages $$$ far above any benefit. Dumping stuff in fuel, maybe, as it goes thru the injectors, but even then, anything it's cleaning is kinda minimal.

good job, carry on, and ride safe... (and don't spray stuff where it doesn't belong  ;)  )

30 YEARS OF KAW.....