Author Topic: Cracked frame at shock  (Read 16326 times)

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2018, 06:18:12 am »
One could always look in the same area on their bike and see if there's any cracking of the welds.  I'd do mine but getting on the floor these days and then trying to get back up (easy boys) can be difficult.  How about some of you whipper snappers do that and report back?
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Offline lather

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2018, 01:03:42 pm »
I'm hardly a whippersnapper but I did just that when I saw the first post. No sign of cracks or signs of stress. Just puzzlement as to how the pictured damage could have occured.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2018, 01:37:47 pm »
 :)   You know, there was a redesign for the Gen 2s on the oil pan plug.  I wonder if something changed in the center stand area?  I'd knock my oil pan plug off with a knock on the bottom area.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 02:21:54 pm by VirginiaJim »
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Offline kzz1king

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2018, 04:46:08 pm »
If I were MamaKaw I would give you a new bike in exchange for all photos being removed from the internet!
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Offline lather

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2018, 07:52:16 pm »
:)   You know, there was a redesign for the Gen 2s on the oil pan plug.  I wonder if something changed in the center stand area?  I'd knock my oil pan plug off with a knock on the bottom area.
The oil plug cover on my first 08 WAS knocked off by an impact that also ground off a third of thr plug bolt head. I'd like to see a pic of the crack on the other side. Might gives a clue.
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Offline Poseidon

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2018, 04:05:04 pm »
It could be a bad casting. It happens sometimes with cast aluminum. That is probably why the dealer is sending it to Kawasaki.
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Offline Rhino

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2018, 09:08:53 am »
Hey Dreedo, please keep us informed as to what Kawasaki does. Thank you.

Offline Dreedo

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2018, 04:29:18 pm »
Good news! Kawasaki is going to replace the frame at no expense to me. They said that the frame failure couldn't have been caused by anything a rider could've done on the bike. No signs of any impacts. Local service department has ordered the replacement frame and I should be back on the road in about 3 weeks. Kawasaki did what was right but didn't have to since technically my warranty went out in April 2018. Good to know there are companies that still stand by their products. Also through all this I've realized that just checking tire pressures, oil levels and other common maintenance items is not always enough when you are dependent on two wheels for motoring down the highway.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2018, 04:54:35 pm »
That is shocking and yet also fantastic news.  Replacing the frame is a *major* expense and will mean taking apart most of the bike and putting it back together again.  So there are risks (that the dealer doesn't do it right or misses something or breaks something else in the long complicated process).

Wow

Wow that the dealer was so cooperative.
Wow that it was deemed a defect.
Wow that Kawasaki will go to that length to repair it.
Wow that Kawasaki will cover it out of warranty.
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Offline MtnRider

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2018, 06:21:46 pm »
They probably want it back so they can analyze it to figure out what went wrong.

The cynical would say maybe to get it out of public view but with a manufacturing background which includes working for a Japanese manufacturer I'm betting on the analysis. I'm sure there a lot of folks over there going, "WTF!?!? I want see that frame!

Offline p07r0457

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2018, 05:59:05 am »
They probably want it back so they can analyze it to figure out what went wrong.

The cynical would say maybe to get it out of public view but with a manufacturing background which includes working for a Japanese manufacturer I'm betting on the analysis. I'm sure there a lot of folks over there going, "WTF!?!? I want see that frame!
Yes, I think that is likely true.  I doubt much thought was put into "keeping it out of public view" since it's already been posted online, and the "Streisand Effect" is a thing.

What does surprise me, however, is that they're doing the frame swap...  It would seem easier to just take the bike back and give the guy a new bike.  When you factor in labor, I bet it's cheaper to swap bikes...  Plus Kawasaki would win big brownie points.

I would also assume that there is value in the engineers seeing the whole bike and being able to tear it down, themselves.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2018, 03:11:31 pm »
What does surprise me, however, is that they're doing the frame swap...  It would seem easier to just take the bike back and give the guy a new bike.  When you factor in labor, I bet it's cheaper to swap bikes...  I would also assume that there is value in the engineers seeing the whole bike and being able to tear it down, themselves.

Exactly.  It is really odd to me they would want to do it this way.
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Offline jimmymac

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2018, 03:21:37 pm »
If it was brand new, I'm sure they would. They can look at the frame and figure it out.
I would worry about the zit faced kid that's going to assemble it...
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2018, 03:30:19 pm »
Behind the scenes, the fact is that Kawasaki pays their dealers very little for labor. This is no doubt what makes changing out 'just' a frame attractive. If I remember correctly, Kawasaki pays 3.2 hours of labor for a valve lash check and adjust and for any of us who have actually done one, we know this is not even close to a bad joke. Twice that time is not enough. So while the labor hours may be high, Kawasaki is getting them at a greatly, often ridiculous, 'cut- rate' schedule.

I have often made the amusing observation that they must not use 'Earth hours' but rather 'Jupiter or Saturn hours  to set the time of given tasks / repairs.

I do not mean to sound negative toward Kawasaki; I have always though they made a terrific product and am really a big fan. But in the world of dealer- compensated repairs, it really is a badly stacked- deck against the dealers when Mama Kaw is buying.

Brian

Yes, I think that is likely true.  I doubt much thought was put into "keeping it out of public view" since it's already been posted online, and the "Streisand Effect" is a thing.

What does surprise me, however, is that they're doing the frame swap...  It would seem easier to just take the bike back and give the guy a new bike.  When you factor in labor, I bet it's cheaper to swap bikes...  Plus Kawasaki would win big brownie points.

I would also assume that there is value in the engineers seeing the whole bike and being able to tear it down, themselves.
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Offline PH14

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2018, 04:22:01 pm »
e.

I have often made the amusing observation that they must not use 'Earth hours' but rather 'Jupiter or Saturn hours  to set the time of given tasks / repairs.



Brian

I don't know, Brian, the day on Jupiter is about Earth 10 hours, and the day on Saturn is about Earth 11 hours, so if you broke their day up into 24 hours... :finger_fing11:

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2018, 04:49:00 pm »
Yep, the gas giants spin relatively rapidly. I was making a snide reference to having a 'short' number of hours make more sense and sighting the big planets as having 'long days', which they really do not. They have long years though; maybe that is how Mama K figures the hours.... dividing a Jupiter year into 365 1/4 days?

Back to the hours per repair / function ratio: at least on cars, the 'Motor manuals' are usually used as a third party for how long something takes. And given a decent environment and reasonable (or better) tools, most can beat the Motor estimated hours for a task and therefore make an actual living as a mechanic. But motorcycles do not have outside sources for repair / work time estimates and the manufacturer sets them, seemingly always well in the mfg's favor in my experience. I know I could not do a C-14 valve lash check / adjust in 3.2 hours, Earth or otherwise. :-)

Brian

I don't know, Brian, the day on Jupiter is about Earth 10 hours, and the day on Saturn is about Earth 11 hours, so if you broke their day up into 24 hours... :finger_fing11:
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2018, 05:39:34 pm »
Where's Conrad when you need him?
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2018, 06:37:18 pm »
If it was brand new, I'm sure they would. They can look at the frame and figure it out.
I would worry about the zit faced kid that's going to assemble it...

when I tried to respond to this thread last night, my computer locked up...

to add, I would have to assume that Kaw, want's to see this 'complete' frame, to ascertain any other defects that may have occurred on it during it's trip in assembly, and welding... this is not something they take lightly, as history shows when Goldwing frames began cracking regularly from a similar issue at Honda...

I am willing to bet, this whole 'frame replacement' from beginning till it's completed, will be watched over by a Kaw supplied factory tech person, and measurements, and prior inspection of torques, and dimensions will be done as it is taken apart...
I'd also bet that Kaw staffed person turns most of the wrenches... during the job.

I don't have any belief they will let the 'kid' at the dealership even touch a wrench during this... I await further commentary from the o/p, about this whole process, when it's revealed how it will be undertaken and what transpires... In some areas, I do highly respect Kaw's choices, this one particularly... and I'm sure it will be worthy for all parties...
I hope this shows just how much it means to the manufacturer, to analyze, and feed back information (just as they have done in the past, when the bike first appeared, and they silently and unkbeknownst to all, watched us pick apart, and report every little thing that was a defect), taking it as a barometer of how to correct faults.. and further prevent others...
this occurance COULD have had a very bad, multi million $$$$$ slap on them, via a personal injury... they are taking this seriously...

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Offline PH14

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2018, 09:26:50 pm »
Yep, the gas giants spin relatively rapidly. I was making a snide reference to having a 'short' number of hours make more sense and sighting the big planets as having 'long days', which they really do not. They have long years though; maybe that is how Mama K figures the hours.... dividing a Jupiter year into 365 1/4 days?

Back to the hours per repair / function ratio: at least on cars, the 'Motor manuals' are usually used as a third party for how long something takes. And given a decent environment and reasonable (or better) tools, most can beat the Motor estimated hours for a task and therefore make an actual living as a mechanic. But motorcycles do not have outside sources for repair / work time estimates and the manufacturer sets them, seemingly always well in the mfg's favor in my experience. I know I could not do a C-14 valve lash check / adjust in 3.2 hours, Earth or otherwise. :-)

Brian

Yeah, I don't see how it is possible. Just messin' with ya. I wish I could do one that quickly.

Offline Conrad

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2018, 07:18:06 am »
Where's Conrad when you need him?

You rang?
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