Author Topic: Cracked frame at shock  (Read 9237 times)

Offline route66tc

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #75 on: November 17, 2018, 04:23:44 am »
Thanks very much for taking the time to go back and get pics of the frame for everyone to see.  Those pics are very valuable information for every C14 owner!

Offline maxtog

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #76 on: November 17, 2018, 06:09:48 am »
Thanks very much for taking the time to go back and get pics of the frame for everyone to see.  Those pics are very valuable information for every C14 owner!

It is very interesting, for sure, but I am not sure it is "valuable for every owner".... that would imply this is something we need to look out for.  In defense of Kawasaski, I have been reading countless thousands of postings about the C14 for 9 years now, many by people who are pretty well connected and informed, and I have never seen a single posting about a cracked or damaged frame, ever (outside of major accident damage, and even that is rare).

What happened to him is so rare as to perhaps be singular.... and we still really don't know anything about what caused the problem.  Unfortunately, we probably never will know, either.  Just because Kawasaki stepped up and fixed it (and out of warranty at that) still doesn't mean it left the factory with any frame or weld flaws.
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Offline jwh20

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #77 on: November 17, 2018, 07:07:29 am »
It seems to me to be an amazing amount of damage for a bike/frame that has not been in an accident.  I'd hope that Kawasaki's rational for fixing this out-of-warranty is a combination of goodwill as well as genuine interest in having the broken frame back for analysis.  As others have noted, this is a very rare happening even for a crashed bike.  I know if I was an engineer at Kawasaki I would want to know what happened here.  Was it bad materials, bad manufacturing, or something that happened to the bike after it left the factory.

Offline katata1100

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #78 on: November 17, 2018, 10:16:21 am »
They’d want to know if there were more out there ; each one is an expensive potential lawsuit.

Offline PH14

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #79 on: November 17, 2018, 10:52:41 am »
That could have been so much worse than it already was. Now I'm going to be the one to ask the stupid question...
In the 2nd photo, when I enlarged it I still could not make out what the white "substance" is that's beside the weld. It looks like caulk to me.
Any explanation?

That is just the color of the alloy, "enhanced" some by the exposure.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #80 on: November 17, 2018, 11:24:38 am »
If this was caused by a manufacturing problem, would be good to know vin number of the machine?
Others can look to see if they have a bike made at the same approximate time.

Ride safe, Ted

Offline fartymarty

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #81 on: November 17, 2018, 12:11:13 pm »
In the 2nd photo, when I enlarged it I still could not make out what the white "substance" is that's beside the weld. It looks like caulk to me.
Any explanation?

That is just the color of the alloy, "enhanced" some by the exposure.

To be clear, "exposure" means photographic exposure or in this case over exposure, not exposure to the elements. The frame being painted/powder coated black contrasts with the revealed unpainted aluminum enough that the aluminum looks white and pasty instead of silver/gray. Looking at the photo you can see that the aluminum displayed is an angled break going back under the welding bead and not a straight through crack at 90 degrees to the surface. The attached manipulated photo may or may not make it clearer.

Offline Dreedo

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #82 on: November 17, 2018, 12:44:14 pm »
So in response to the conversations about the photos. The white in the crack is the clean alloy illuminated because I had to use flash in the dark service area in order to take the picture. I agree with the comment about the frame being a bit of an oddity in that this is rare and unheard of on these bikes. The local service manager and the service manager from the dealership where the bike was purchased have never seen or heard of this ever. The local service manager said he has only seen this kind of damage on a totaled bike where bad things happened to the rider. This bike has never been down, bumped and most importantly wrecked. All of the damage followed the welded areas so what caused it, who knows but it still isn't a bad idea to inspect these areas as your life could depend on it. Also thanks again to Kawasaki for doing what is right even though technically they weren't obligated to replace it at no cost to me. It speaks highly of the company.

Offline Dreedo

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #83 on: November 17, 2018, 12:47:28 pm »
In response to the Saddleman seat. I love it. Comfortable. Great improvement over the factory seat. No numb butt.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #84 on: November 17, 2018, 02:38:23 pm »
It seems to me to be an amazing amount of damage for a bike/frame that has not been in an accident.  I'd hope that Kawasaki's rational for fixing this out-of-warranty is a combination of goodwill as well as genuine interest in having the broken frame back for analysis.  As others have noted, this is a very rare happening even for a crashed bike.  I know if I was an engineer at Kawasaki I would want to know what happened here.  Was it bad materials, bad manufacturing, or something that happened to the bike after it left the factory.

What you note above, is EXACTLY why Kaw was interested in covering this repair, they are a very complete and technically astute company.
As a Mechanical engineer myself, that has worked in both the consumer product industry, and also Military, Nuclear and Defense Industry, and extensive welding and fabricating processes, I can say without a doubt the first issue Kaw want's to address, is going back thru records of all the parts and assembly, with special regard to all automated welding that occurred, and the materials used during the period of manufacture. This stuff, even tho most don't realize or believe, is extremely well documented within the manufacturing infrastructure. Raw materials, both used in cast parts, and machined parts, spools of welding wire, etc., along with periodic non destructive testing that they actually do, is all recorded, and each part fabricated has a paper trail, or should I say a bar coded electronic record trail within their system.
Even something as 'invisible' as a malfunction on the automated welder, if the 'shield gas' was not present due to a malfunctioning valve... would have popped up on the controls, and been corrected; so there would be a record of that occurrence.

I mention that particular part of the welding process, because I have seen this happen before, when incorrect or lack of correct "shielding gas" was not present during the welding process, which resulted in structurally unsound welds, even tho visually (via UV Mag-Flux), and ultrasonically(no porosity contaminants seen) the welds appeared fine. But during microscopic analysis of the cross section of the weld, and chemical composition, the grain structures of the weld components could be seen as root cause

Now, they will do in depth NDT, Ultrasonic, X-ray, and chemical analysis, of that particular failure; and determine the root cause.  Been there, and done that myself, when I worked in defense critical products and structural analysis.

It's all for good tho, and behind the scenes, they will compile a "list' of all the possibly effected units in the field, and issue 'silently' send a notification to those possibly effected (like the bike produced from that week prior, and after) the suspect part was installed on.

I'm just glad the dealership actually took this seriously, and persistence resulted in a good outcome for all concerned.

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline fartymarty

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #85 on: November 17, 2018, 07:16:34 pm »
I'm just glad the dealership actually took this seriously, and persistence resulted in a good outcome for all concerned.
Hear Hear!

Yes indeed, Kudos to the dealer for sure. Especially since (if I have followed Dreedo's posts correctly) the repair (Waco TX?) wasn't done at the dealership of purchase (Plano TX?).
Certainly a dealership's service department to remember in a good way (Barger's Allsport in Waco?).

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #86 on: November 18, 2018, 03:27:22 pm »
Hear Hear!

Yes indeed, Kudos to the dealer for sure. Especially since (if I have followed Dreedo's posts correctly) the repair (Waco TX?) wasn't done at the dealership of purchase (Plano TX?).
Certainly a dealership's service department to remember in a good way (Barger's Allsport in Waco?).

that one totally went over my head.... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
any relation to famous "Sonny"... :rotflmao: :yikes: :rotflmao:   just kidding...

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline tbanzer

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #87 on: November 19, 2018, 01:13:53 pm »
As Mentioned previously, other than bike being hauled on a long rough ride on the center stand I couldn't see how any normal operation of the bike could cause this.

Offline Dreedo

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #88 on: November 22, 2018, 06:51:52 pm »
As I've already said the bike has never been hauled on the center stand. Been hauled twice in it's life,first when purchased and second when taken to the dealership for these repairs. Both times restrained with no stands down and was using the Canyon Dancer System to secure the bike.

Offline jwh20

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #89 on: November 22, 2018, 07:33:03 pm »
As I've already said the bike has never been hauled on the center stand. Been hauled twice in it's life,first when purchased and second when taken to the dealership for these repairs. Both times restrained with no stands down and was using the Canyon Dancer System to secure the bike.

Even if it was, I Just can't imagine that the frame itself would be the "weakest link" in the system.  Something else on the bike would almost certainly give way first.  I'm going to speculate that it was a defect in either the frame casting or the welding as opposed to an environmental factor after it left the factory.  But we'll likely never know for sure unless there is a Kawasaki safety recall in the near future on frame cracks.