Author Topic: Cracked frame at shock  (Read 10946 times)

Offline Michelle

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #105 on: April 07, 2019, 09:35:27 pm »
Something must have severely stressed both of those bikes to break them.

My 2008 took a leap across a four metre ditch and the landing went ... badly. I've since put almost 100K kilometres on it and there is no cracking in the frame.

Notice this crack, too.  Speculation ...

That's a casting mark on the engine case.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #106 on: April 08, 2019, 12:09:42 am »
That's a casting mark on the engine case.

Ah- fooled me!

Sorry again, but that is not a Crack.

Yep.  Was the bike lowered, raised, or neither?  (Not that it necessarily led to damage, just curious now).
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Offline JhVenezuela

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #107 on: April 08, 2019, 06:37:04 am »

Yep.  Was the bike lowered, raised, or neither?  (Not that it necessarily led to damage, just curious now).


Yes, the bike was rised (+30 MM) on 2011, using a Tail Raiser from www.bikefarmMV.de

IMO, That part is weak on that sensible area (hollow) .
Here in my country the roads are not as well as should be, most of the time during our trips we run at 200 - 240 Kms,
that is a lot of streess for that mechanism.


I did not mention this before, I close friend of mine , with a concours 2015 had the same problem last year.

As I said before,  That`s  a MAMA KAWA PROBLEM.


Offline connie_rider

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #108 on: April 08, 2019, 09:03:24 am »
Throwing out idea's;
  No argument is intended. Just adding my thoughts about the failure.

I initially thought we had another "type" of failure on this bike, as "this time" the crack (we see in (Post 92) photo 1 & 2) was not on a weld line..  Looking more closely at the photo's I discovered there is a similarity between the 2 failures.
That similarity is a failure at the welds... (See MOB's post #84)

I think; the initial failure was on the left side (Photo 3) at the weld (in the heat effected zone). (photo 3)
             that failure allowed the right side to flex and the result was a (more typical) fatigue failure. (photo 1 &2)
            {NOTE: That (right side) crack probably initiated at the weld, but the majority of that crack is not in the weld area}

I'll agree that the replacement of OEM parts can cause problems and could have contributed to the problem by increasing force at the rocker.       I just don't think the aftermarket Link caused this problem.
I think the problem is the frame construction, not extra force caused by installing Lowering or Raising Links.

Explaining my thinking;  The rocker's arc has not changed.
                 The arc of the rocker is controlled by the shock length / shock travel, not by the length of the Link.                   
                   ie; The rocker cannot travel more or less than the shock length / shock travel will allow.
                  Installing longer or shorter "Links" will effect the arc of the swingarm, not the arc of the rocker..
                   ie; The new Links effected the swingarm. Rocker was operating in it's normal travel range.

 The frame is designed to haul a loaded bike or 2 people for 100,000 miles.
    1 person on a rough road should not cause a frame failure in 28,000 miles.

Bottom line; The frame flexed/failed and it should not have... {even with the after market Links).

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 05:00:18 pm by connie_rider »

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #109 on: April 08, 2019, 03:26:51 pm »
sorry
anyone that tells me that this lays on Kawasaki, needs their head examined...

using this?

https://www.bikefarmmv.com/epages/79512538.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/79512538/Products/%22HHLRKA%20GTR%201400%20%2007-%22


better study a bit more about Tetra Link geometry, and understand about how fast forces can exponentially multiply when "simple" dimensional modifications are applied "by a lever", that they were not engineered for....

I still cannot explain the failure on the original '08 that started this whole thread back in time, but I wish some one "good luck" trying to pass this one off to Kaw, with those modified linkages.

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline JhVenezuela

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #110 on: April 08, 2019, 04:24:11 pm »
This is as true today as  affirm  that "Concours Do not drop off the baggages !!!!!
During all these years i have seen several concours baggages  rolling around the roads, except mine and you know why ?????

Because I modified it !!!!!!


Come onnnnnn

Don't you rememenber the kawasaki recall (2008) about  Replacement rear carrier platform !!!!!!
it break !!!!!!!!

Not mine and you khow  why ???????????    Because I modified it, before Kawasaki recall

What about the oil plug carter position, I replace mine with 2009 model, Ohhhh my goood, coud  i damage the engine !!!!!!! 

I'm not a beginners and I haved installed in at least half dozen motorcycle, tail raiser, replace rear shock  without any problem as many people do !!!!!!!

That is not the problem !!!!

You can bet !!!!!






« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 05:22:48 pm by JhVenezuela »

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #111 on: April 08, 2019, 05:09:04 pm »
JhVenezuela, did your friends 2015 also have tail raiser Links, or did it have stock links?
                    do you know ao any other bikes that have had this failure?
                    How tall are you and friend? {why did you raise the rear of the bike}

Ride safe, Ted

Offline JhVenezuela

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #112 on: April 08, 2019, 05:16:12 pm »
JhVenezuela, did your friends 2015 also have tail raiser Links, or did it have stock links?
                    do you know ao any other bikes that have had this failure?
                    How tall are you and friend? {why did you raise the rear of the bike}

Ride safe, Ted

No, he did not have raiser links on his bike.
I'm 6'4 and  230 pound.
Raising the bike i feel more confortable on it, specially my knesss.

my fried is arrond 5'8 or 6








Offline blue72beetle

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #113 on: April 08, 2019, 05:22:53 pm »
Trailered on the centerstand?

Offline JhVenezuela

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #114 on: April 08, 2019, 05:25:32 pm »
Trailered on the centerstand?

Nop. Never.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #115 on: April 08, 2019, 05:37:14 pm »

EDITED by request:

so, the original reported failure was here in USA, on a 2013, with no height modifications.

then, the second report is your 2008, with links to raise the bike. Located in Venezuela.

then, a friend of yours, again in Venezuela, with a 2015, and no height mods, has had the same failure, relayed to us.
(which seems very strange, to have 2 failures, on bikes from people that actually know each other).

What was the outcome/and follow up, with regards to your friend's bike getting repaired, as I would assume Kawasaki was contacted by him, being such a new bike?

the original reported bike was completely repaired by Kawasaki.

I suggest you, and your friend, contact Kawasaki, and fully report your issues..
and have them discuss it with you. Without owners reporting issues like this directly to them, there is little Kawasaki can or will do with regards to any of this. We cannot do it for you.

I apologize for appearing rude with regard to your report.

best of luck.

« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 12:54:55 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline zrx mitch

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #116 on: April 08, 2019, 06:39:46 pm »
 :popcorn:
IBA #18591

Offline JhVenezuela

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #117 on: April 09, 2019, 10:14:48 am »
Another tip !!!!!!

I did not mention this before, but i have 2 Concours 14, 2008

The other one, a gray one, have 45K Miles with the same "Tail  raiser" and
another Shock (Ohlins)   since 2001 installed, the frame is in perfect condition,
maybe require an expert inspection.
After alll, i'm just a simple "ENGINEER", not a "GURU" !!!!!!!!!

But thinking about this problem, I have a final conclusion.

I was wrong, the problem is not because a "Inconsistent Frame", the real
cause in the Color !!!!!!
Both bikes are GREEN !!!!!

How could not seen these before,  My fiend have a 2015 Lime green and I
painted the bike on 2014.
 
Incredible or not ????

Enjoy the day !!!!!

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #118 on: April 09, 2019, 11:53:54 am »
Jh, I think you figured it out. Definitely the color.

MOB convinced me that the Tail Raiser adds stress to the frame, but I still think there is a problem with the weld area too.
I suspect it's borderline on strength; then add Tail raiser, rough roads, rider weight, speed etc,,, and it failed.

I'll also agree that Kawasaki wouldn't help you if they saw the tail Raisers installed.
Because; {regardless of them causing or not causing the issue} Kawasaki (or any Dealer) would say that was what caused the failure.

I haven't heard of anyone in COG installing Tail Raisers, but many install a taller rear tire.
So, when you get another frame, consider installing a 190-55 tire instead of the stock 190-50 tire {as it raises the rear a bit} and see if that "bit" is enough rise for you.

Ride safe, Ted

PS: Another question. How much preload is dialed into your rear shock spring?
                                 Have you set the sag?




Offline JhVenezuela

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Re: Cracked frame at shock
« Reply #119 on: April 09, 2019, 12:51:49 pm »
Jh, I think you figured it out. Definitely the color.

MOB convinced me that the Tail Raiser adds stress to the frame, but I still think there is a problem with the weld area too.
I suspect it's borderline on strength; then add Tail raiser, rough roads, rider weight, speed etc,,, and it failed.

I'll also agree that Kawasaki wouldn't help you if they saw the tail Raisers installed.
Because; {regardless of them causing or not causing the issue} Kawasaki (or any Dealer) would say that was what caused the failure.

I haven't heard of anyone in COG installing Tail Raisers, but many install a taller rear tire.
So, when you get another frame, consider installing a 190-55 tire instead of the stock 190-50 tire {as it raises the rear a bit} and see if that "bit" is enough rise for you.

Ride safe, Ted

PS: Another question. How much preload is dialed into your rear shock spring?
                                 Have you set the sag?

As i listened in tv series .... "everything he says will be used against him"

I'm using now a 190-55 Pirelli
About the rear shock  setting, I usually use a Hard adjustment on it, because is better at high speed




I'm using now a Pirelli 190-55