Author Topic: New Models to Debut at AIMEXPO  (Read 2063 times)

Offline Rubber_Snake

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Re: New Models to Debut at AIMEXPO
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2018, 08:03:46 am »
I guess you’ll love that color combo if you’re a Raiders fan.  Looks like they had a choice of two colors, couldn’t decide and said “F*ck it.  Let’s do both.”  Not much of a choice for a new customer.  Bring back the green monster! 
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Offline katata1100

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Re: New Models to Debut at AIMEXPO
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2018, 08:11:46 am »
That dark strip on the fairing that says “Kawasaki” looks like a carbon fiber decal-yuck.It’s the cheesiest sticker put on bike since the days when Honda would put a chrome sticker on the night hawk.

Offline fartymarty

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Re: New Models to Debut at AIMEXPO
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2018, 12:44:41 pm »
Looks like they had a choice of two colors, couldn’t decide and said “F*ck it.  Let’s do both.” 

More likely they are assembling 2019s with excess spare parts and went with those parts pre-painted that they had the most of on hand. They probably made too many spare parts and when sales were lower than expected, their bean counting algorithm said they needed to dump some into the production run.

That dark strip on the fairing that says “Kawasaki” looks like a carbon fiber decal-yuck. It’s the cheesiest sticker put on bike....

I hope it comes off as easy as the old one did, and doesn't ruin the paint underneath it when it does.

Online maxtog

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Re: New Models to Debut at AIMEXPO
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2018, 02:18:36 pm »
More likely they are assembling 2019s with excess spare parts and went with those parts pre-painted that they had the most of on hand. They probably made too many spare parts and when sales were lower than expected, their bean counting algorithm said they needed to dump some into the production run.

I hate to agree (because it does sound cheesy), but you are probably right.  I was thinking the same thing- parts grab bag :)

Quote
I hope it comes off as easy as the old one did, and doesn't ruin the paint underneath it when it does.

I can't tell if it is a sticker, but it probably is.  Normally, the "Kawasaki" logo is a high-quality, silver, raised lettering... which I like a lot.  But if that really is just a printed sticker.... eeeeew.... I would remove it, hoping the paint under it was in good condition and then just buy the correct "Kawasaki" letters and put it on there.

What is with making the silver "matte", anyway... another poor choice if you ask me.  Matte paint not only doesn't look good, it is much harder to keep clean, and has FAR less stain resistance.  I would look at it and say "what, did someone forget the clear coat?"

Not much of a choice for a new customer.  Bring back the green monster! 

In fairness, we never had much of a choice.  On the years they offered two colors so there was a "choice", the other color was always black.  Lots of people (including me) detest black.  It is hard to see (safety), impossible to keep clean, shows every little scuff and flaw, and is hot as hell in the sun.  The only thing worse than black is MATTE BLACK.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: New Models to Debut at AIMEXPO
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2018, 03:34:36 pm »
Yeah, Kawasaki has been there, done that. They stopped manufacturing KZ1300's somewhere around 1983 but continued to "make" and sell new models through 1987. The later bikes were just assembled from parts already manufactured. The bike (the 1300) was a poor selling bike and Kawasaki seems to have made a lot of them with high expectations.

As an aside, I also thought it was going to be a big seller- one of the very few in-line six cylinder motorcycles ever made. It did have some teething problems but nothing fundamental and most or all the problems were addressed in the last [non- US] model years sold. The other thing was that it was introduced as a direct competitor to Honda's GoldWing (a 4 cylinder, 1000cc bike back then) and while the Honda sold, the Kawasaki did not. Go figure.....

I really do hope the C-14 does not disappear from the lineup for the next few years though.

Brian

More likely they are assembling 2019s with excess spare parts and went with those parts pre-painted that they had the most of on hand. They probably made too many spare parts and when sales were lower than expected, their bean counting algorithm said they needed to dump some into the production run.

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Online maxtog

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Re: New Models to Debut at AIMEXPO
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2018, 08:01:34 pm »
I really do hope the C-14 does not disappear from the lineup for the next few years though.

Me neither, at least not until a suitable and compelling replacement Concours is created.
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Offline PlaynInPeoria

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Re: New Models to Debut at AIMEXPO
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2018, 06:51:53 am »
Well, it isn't expensive (actually costs zero) and there are no parts and nothing to break.  It is nothing but having more maps to select from.  I can see how it could be useful.  For example, one set of maps (think "Flash") could be with aggressive engine breaking, and another with normal, and another with little.

Ride by wire (electronic throttle) would instantly add cruise control (at zero cost),

Unless it were designed correctly, so the "adaptive" part  could be turned off, so it is normal cruise control, like I can on my G37S (which has adaptive as an optional function).  I have no problem with optional things (modes, settings, etc), as long as I can retain control over them (and control that preferably is "sticky" (persistent) )

Nothing costs zero. I work in embedded software development (what all these ride modes and cruise control stuff is). It's crazy expensive. You need to do a lot of R&D, come up with a plan, write a spec, write the software, test the software, manage all those people, all of which are highly paid.  Zero could not be farther than the truth.  These are what would be Fortune 500 companies in the US.  They probably have hardware in the loop test benches and all the developers have at least one ECU and wiring harness and power supply on their desk and need to vary all the inputs (signals like temp, coolant temp, intake manifold air pressure  etc etc).   My test bench costs about $80,000 for the hardware alone, then you have to make the wiring harness and that is days of engineering time.   A typical developer where I work makes 100k and managers make 160k. Testers make from 55k to 90k So, zero cost?   Nope. 

Plus it's a competitive market.  If you have the skillset to do that and your company isn't paying you enough, GM or an Aerospace outfit or Tesla or (fill in the blank) will gladly hire you, so the competition drives up wages.  We had a guy with 10 years experience in autonomous vehicles leave for Silicon Valley, a guy left for Amazon.  My riding buddy is a manager and his bonus gross was 100k, he makes 160k. 

And if you make a cruise control feature and it fails?  Lawsuits out the ass.  So you test it and test it and then test it some more.  Oh, add in patents and IP lawyers and all the IT stuff it takes to run all that?   We have 3000 engineers under one roof.  My boss's boss's boss's budget is $120,000,000.  So sure, there's LOTS of zeroes there I guess?
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Offline PH14

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Re: New Models to Debut at AIMEXPO
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2018, 01:01:26 pm »
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This. So very true.

Online maxtog

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Re: New Models to Debut at AIMEXPO
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2018, 03:11:13 pm »
Nothing costs zero. I work in embedded software development (what all these ride modes and cruise control stuff is). It's crazy expensive.

I have been working in software and system development for 30+ years, so I know what you are saying, but let me clarify further...

First, I wasn't talking about ride control as in suspension.  I was talking about just cruise and maps.  You are correct I should have said "essentially zero" or perhaps "very little" ... my bad :)  Although there is little to no hardware cost, there is R&D/testing, but that is very minimal for cruise control on an already throttle-by-wire design (which itself WILL take a lot of development, but that is a change already being made), and also very minimal for a multi-map system (of which the Concours already is/has; so adding perhaps 2 or three more maps on a new ECU that will already have at least two is not that big a whoop).  So yes, although there is some cost, what cost there would be is then spread over a million production units over several or more years, meaning something like a few or several dollars per bike.

I can't speak much to liability costs, that is outside my experience.  Mappings- I think that is probably not much of an issue.  Cruise, well, that is SO well-known now and not rocket science.... and probably already done on other models, anyway.  Active suspension?  I have no clue.... but I wasn't addressing that (just in case you were, and I am not saying you were).
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: New Models to Debut at AIMEXPO
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2018, 03:51:33 pm »
Ah, see, there you go, clogging a lot of "I wants" up with reality, which is never received well by the public.  ;D

Adding C.C. to the C-14 as currently available would be problematic and although absolutely doable, it would show up in the bottom- line cost to the consumer who seems invariably reluctant / resistant to paying for it.

But there is a solution: all the "I wants" can get together and devise  / design their own CC. (an similar) for the C-14 at a 'cut- rate' price, without the concerns for liability or other, outside, costs.

ROFLMAO

Brian

Nothing costs zero. I work in embedded software development (what all these ride modes and cruise control stuff is). It's crazy expensive. You need to do a lot of R&D, come up with a plan, write a spec, write the software, test the software, manage all those people, all of which are highly paid.  Zero could not be farther than the truth.  These are what would be Fortune 500 companies in the US.  They probably have hardware in the loop test benches and all the developers have at least one ECU and wiring harness and power supply on their desk and need to vary all the inputs (signals like temp, coolant temp, intake manifold air pressure  etc etc).   My test bench costs about $80,000 for the hardware alone, then you have to make the wiring harness and that is days of engineering time.   A typical developer where I work makes 100k and managers make 160k. Testers make from 55k to 90k So, zero cost?   Nope. 

Plus it's a competitive market.  If you have the skillset to do that and your company isn't paying you enough, GM or an Aerospace outfit or Tesla or (fill in the blank) will gladly hire you, so the competition drives up wages.  We had a guy with 10 years experience in autonomous vehicles leave for Silicon Valley, a guy left for Amazon.  My riding buddy is a manager and his bonus gross was 100k, he makes 160k. 

And if you make a cruise control feature and it fails?  Lawsuits out the ass.  So you test it and test it and then test it some more.  Oh, add in patents and IP lawyers and all the IT stuff it takes to run all that?   We have 3000 engineers under one roof.  My boss's boss's boss's budget is $120,000,000.  So sure, there's LOTS of zeroes there I guess?
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Online maxtog

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Re: New Models to Debut at AIMEXPO
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2018, 04:16:44 pm »
Ah, see, there you go, clogging a lot of "I wants" up with reality, which is never received well by the public.  ;D  Adding C.C. to the C-14 as currently available would be problematic and although absolutely doable, it would show up in the bottom- line cost to the consumer who seems invariably reluctant / resistant to paying for it.

Except my postings weren't at all about adding cruise control to the currently available model.  It was about adding cruise control to a NEW model that would presumably already be throttle-by-wire....
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Offline katata1100

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Re: New Models to Debut at AIMEXPO
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2018, 05:16:53 pm »
Ah, see, there you go, clogging a lot of "I wants" up with reality, which is never received well by the public.  ;D

Adding C.C. to the C-14 as currently available would be problematic and although absolutely doable, it would show up in the bottom- line cost to the consumer who seems invariably reluctant / resistant to paying for it.

But there is a solution: all the "I wants" can get together and devise  / design their own CC. (an similar) for the C-14 at a 'cut- rate' price, without the concerns for liability or other, outside, costs.

ROFLMAO

Brian

Not necessarily . Hypothetically , what if cc added $100 to the cost of the bike, but the folks in the marketing dept say that if it has cc, keeping the current price, they could sell 10,000 more bikes and that would more than make up for extra $50 the cc cost? That’s how it works in the real world.

Offline Cuda

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Re: New Models to Debut at AIMEXPO
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2018, 08:10:51 pm »
Because of the exchange rate McCruise is only $700. something plus shipping,  :D

Been about six years for me , I'm happy and I paid $1,000.+

Every year the same talk, Next year folks,

It's like talking about the Buffalo  Bills or Cleveland Browns

NEXT YEAR folks :rotflmao: :banghead:
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Offline PlaynInPeoria

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Re: New Models to Debut at AIMEXPO
« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2018, 06:15:37 am »
... but that is very minimal for cruise control on an already throttle-by-wire design (which itself WILL take a lot of development, but that is a change already being made),

So if you take out the expensive part, it's very inexpensive?   Makes perfect sense.


what cost there would be is then spread over a million production units over several or more years, meaning something like a few or several dollars per bike.

If they were selling a million bikes, would they be phasing out the model?

I'm sure the C14 product manager doesn't sit around all day, wondering how he can possibly improve the bike. On the contrary, he probably has a rule in his email that automatically deletes any email that mentions cruise control. Why? Because he's been told in no uncertain terms by a legion of bean counters that he's losing money on the model as is, and if he adds cost to it, he'll be taken out back and hacked apart by bone saws (it's  all the rage now).

Apparently BMW and Yamaha have the market cornered? Honda hasn't updated the ST1300 in years and Suzuki doesn't even try. I've had CC and do love it but I'm not willing to do a Rostra when a throttle lock accomplishes 75% of the task for <$20.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 06:59:16 am by PlaynInPeoria »
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Offline katata1100

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Re: New Models to Debut at AIMEXPO
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2018, 12:42:51 pm »
S

Apparently BMW and Yamaha have the market cornered? Honda hasn't updated the ST1300 in years and Suzuki doesn't even try. I've had CC and do love it but I'm not willing to do a Rostra when a throttle lock accomplishes 75% of the task for <$20.

That's being very generous. Unless you live where it is totally flat and there is no wind,it is nowhere close to doing 75% of what cc can do. Go up a hill, it maintains your speed, go down a hill, maintains your speed, and if you have to slow down, a simple pus of a button takes you back up to that speed, no throttle lock can do that. Plus,  speed maintained within .5 mph, so steady that it helps mpg, again, throttle lock can't do that.