Author Topic: Concours 14 Passive FOB replacement from locksmith  (Read 2174 times)

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2423
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: Concours 14 Passive FOB replacement from locksmith
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2018, 03:38:55 pm »
So no official documentation then, just typing out the a.. --> -------------------------------------------------------------


I think you missed the tongue in cheek aimed remark I made about "continuous broadcasting" that was made as a response to Gabe's locksmith's description..
and took it as "my words"... which was not my intent,
Well this is true that the control unit has to programed to the fob which means if you can duplicate the fob it's a home run.
This locksmith tells me that these devices do not communicate back and forth, that the fob sends a signal that the control unit can relate to. (ad-libbed)
I will find out for sure
If you felt any of what I said was "talking out my butt", so be it.
I do have a bit of desire to see what transpires, and didn't mean to be obnoxious about it... so apologies for any humor injections.
I also know a bit about the system, which is why is exactly why I asked about the "ping" when using the Passive chip part of the FOB..held next to the switch..and the key is pressed...
I also find the "ping", which I call a "query" signal, probably would not be the same as a "programming protocol" type, which could be possibly used for re-programming the code within an Active FOB.

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline jwh20

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 316
Re: Concours 14 Passive FOB replacement from locksmith
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2018, 04:03:04 pm »
As with all robust cryptographic methods, knowing the algorithm, in this case MISTY, does you no good.  In fact here is a document with the details:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2994

BTW, MISTY-1 was cracked in 2015:

https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/746.pdf

So have at it!

But the thing that keeps it secure is the "secret".  In our case the secret, as I mentioned earlier, is the FOB ID.  That is NOT on the FOB itself, it is NOT shown in the KDS3 system.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2423
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: Concours 14 Passive FOB replacement from locksmith
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2018, 05:29:31 pm »
As with all robust cryptographic methods, knowing the algorithm, in this case MISTY, does you no good.  In fact here is a document with the details:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2994

BTW, MISTY-1 was cracked in 2015:

https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/746.pdf

So have at it!

But the thing that keeps it secure is the "secret".  In our case the secret, as I mentioned earlier, is the FOB ID.  That is NOT on the FOB itself, it is NOT shown in the KDS3 system.

ouch...
trying to read the Misty stuff had me thinking the room was spinning... and then caused extreme pain
now...


 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :yikes:

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline fartymarty

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1441
  • Country: us
  • COG#9712 '10 ABS
Re: Concours 14 Passive FOB replacement from locksmith
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2018, 11:02:41 am »
I think you missed the tongue in cheek aimed remark I made about "continuous broadcasting" that was made as a response to Gabe's locksmith's description..
and took it as "my words"... which was not my intent, If you felt any of what I said was "talking out my butt", so be it.

Well OK, I guess I'm just to stupid to tell when you tongue is in your cheek or when you're typing from somewhere deep and scary. I couldn't find anywhere Gab said his locksmith said it was "continuously broadcasting" but then maybe I don't read so well. So....just disregard what I said earlier because it was all tongue in cheek too.  :-\

Good luck Gab', and let us know how it goes.

Offline Summit670

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 478
  • Country: us
Re: Concours 14 Passive FOB replacement from locksmith
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2018, 05:30:27 pm »
I sold my c10 last year.   Been riding a Yamaha Raider for 5 years or so but still like the c14 and may get one at some point so I ck these forums often so I dont get too far out of touch.

I say great to the guy and locksmith for trying to figure something out. 

Arctic Cat M8 163 rules

Sleds, Dirt Bikes, ATV's, Street Bikes, Mountain Bikes.  Heck, I guess if it has handlebars I'll give it a try.

Offline zrx mitch

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 35
  • Country: us
Re: Concours 14 Passive FOB replacement from locksmith
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2018, 06:52:26 pm »
Let us know how this goes, I need a reason to go across town.
IBA #18591

Offline Gabriel

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 67
  • Country: 00
  • Near Galveston
Re: Concours 14 Passive FOB replacement from locksmith
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2018, 07:07:14 pm »
I will call him on Friday, that gives him a week...

Offline Gabriel

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 67
  • Country: 00
  • Near Galveston
Re: Concours 14 Passive FOB replacement from locksmith
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2018, 01:32:19 pm »
I called the locksmith and he has not heard back from his sources, I told him I will call again on Tuesday

Offline Locksmith

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 36
  • Country: 00
Re: Concours 14 Passive FOB replacement from locksmith
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2018, 06:17:18 pm »
I decided to give it a shot making a key for my 2018 C14.  I am a locksmith and have been for 37 years.  Stopped doing automotive stuff long ago, so I had to have the young guys help me out.

I read my passive fob with the key reader.  It told me to use a TPX5 glass chip.  We wrote the chip and it works exactly like my passive fob.  Then I ordered a JMA TPOOKAW-9.P1 key blank without transponder chip.  My bike uses a "B" key.  I cut the key from my existing passive fob and inserted the chip.

I now have a key that operates my bags and gas cap and will also start the bike with the stove knob.  It will not replace the stove knob as the bike's antenna isn't big enough to read the chip that far away.

I took a picture of all the bits and pieces.  If anyone wants to post it up, send me a PM with your email address and I'll forward it to you.

Offline route66tc

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
Re: Concours 14 Passive FOB replacement from locksmith
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2018, 05:29:16 pm »
Here's the pic. 

Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10532
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: Concours 14 Passive FOB replacement from locksmith
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2018, 10:45:28 am »
I decided to give it a shot making a key for my 2018 C14.  I am a locksmith and have been for 37 years.  Stopped doing automotive stuff long ago, so I had to have the young guys help me out.

I read my passive fob with the key reader.  It told me to use a TPX5 glass chip.  We wrote the chip and it works exactly like my passive fob.  Then I ordered a JMA TPOOKAW-9.P1 key blank without transponder chip.  My bike uses a "B" key.  I cut the key from my existing passive fob and inserted the chip.

I now have a key that operates my bags and gas cap and will also start the bike with the stove knob.  It will not replace the stove knob as the bike's antenna isn't big enough to read the chip that far away.

I took a picture of all the bits and pieces.  If anyone wants to post it up, send me a PM with your email address and I'll forward it to you.


So you can press the stove knob down and the bike can communicate with the key as you are sitting on the bike without using the rf backup?
  "LOCTITE┬«"  The original thread locker...  #11  08-C14 EA FC ABS 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology.  U.N.I.T is Back!  2016 Indian Roadmaster.

Offline fartymarty

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1441
  • Country: us
  • COG#9712 '10 ABS
Re: Concours 14 Passive FOB replacement from locksmith
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2018, 01:11:13 pm »

So you can press the stove knob down and the bike can communicate with the key as you are sitting on the bike without using the rf backup?

No, read his post again.

I decided to give it a shot making a key for my 2018 C14.  I am a locksmith and have been for 37 years.  Stopped doing automotive stuff long ago, so I had to have the young guys help me out.

I read my passive fob with the key reader.  It told me to use a TPX5 glass chip.  We wrote the chip and it works exactly like my passive fob.  Then I ordered a JMA TPOOKAW-9.P1 key blank without transponder chip.  My bike uses a "B" key.  I cut the key from my existing passive fob and inserted the chip.

I now have a key that operates my bags and gas cap and will also start the bike with the stove knob.  It will not replace the stove knob as the bike's antenna isn't big enough to read the chip that far away.

I took a picture of all the bits and pieces.  If anyone wants to post it up, send me a PM with your email address and I'll forward it to you.
He can use the key to open stuff, and he can use it to get the LCD to light up as he would a passive fob, he can't just leave it in the stove knob position and start the bike, he needs a second key to already be in the stove knob position. It doesn't act as an active FOB.

Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10532
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: Concours 14 Passive FOB replacement from locksmith
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2018, 03:12:57 pm »
I read that but i got terribly confused...which is easy for me to do these days.  So in other words, an active FOB replacement has not been accomplished.   This is yet another way to use the RFID with a key instead of the credit card or the real FOB.


If I still appear to be confused, let me know.
  "LOCTITE┬«"  The original thread locker...  #11  08-C14 EA FC ABS 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology.  U.N.I.T is Back!  2016 Indian Roadmaster.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2423
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: Concours 14 Passive FOB replacement from locksmith
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2018, 04:14:55 pm »
to make it simple for you Jim, the effort that he did was fine, the part that needs to be mentioned, is... when doing a clone key chip/key cut, make 2 of them... that way if the stove knob is not there, one key is inserted into the switch, the other passive chip key is placed next to the 'sensor' port, press key down... bike starts... for all other "key" stuff, the extra key is nice... the chipped key reaally is only "used' for the chip function, when placed next to the port... and it MUST be placed there to sense it.. as it's not a "proximity" thing.

I do have a question about this TPX5 chip... the original stuff I dug up, related to the TPX3... which was the first ones successfully cloned...
Here's the pic.

it may be a carry over thru the chips new generations, but it may also require the latest JMA evo chip cloner to clone the TPX5.. food for thought.

I'm ordering some chips and keys now, to make sure... but I'm getting TPX3 chips.

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline Summit670

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 478
  • Country: us
Re: Concours 14 Passive FOB replacement from locksmith
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2018, 06:18:28 pm »
I love my standard, no fuss keys which can be duplicated for a few bucks.
Arctic Cat M8 163 rules

Sleds, Dirt Bikes, ATV's, Street Bikes, Mountain Bikes.  Heck, I guess if it has handlebars I'll give it a try.