Author Topic: The Kilogram....Huh?  (Read 2786 times)

Offline maxtog

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Re: The Kilogram....Huh?
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2018, 07:17:36 pm »
But hey, maybe we can get there- think African- American void (I want to be politically correct here so as not to have the forces of FaceTwit align against me).

Or I could give you a hard time in reverse!

One could be Xth generation white (historically European at some point), South African and move here- and be African-American.  Or one could be an Xth generation black American who moves to South Africa (American-South African?) and marries a white European-South-African and their children move back to the USA who are thus both black and white South-African-African-European-African-South-African-American?

I love political correctness, because it gives me the wonderful opportunity to throw out how hypocritical it all is.  I harassed someone just a few days ago who said, in the same sentence, "African-American", "Asian-American" and then "White", by asking a return question using the terms "Black", "Yellow" and then "European-American."

Just so just say "a black void" and be done with it :)
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: The Kilogram....Huh?
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2018, 07:53:34 pm »
A swing and a miss! The politically correct 'African- American Void' would be a...... wait for it..... black hole.  Just like about 1/2 of the world's homo sapiens sapiens population are "Fe-persons", or about 1/2 of the US population are "Gyno- Americans'.  Yep, I find most things can be cleansed, politically speaking, quite nicely.

Brian (who is hoping his physician does not find a 'mass' but if he does, I really hope it is no where near a kilogram; there, now we are back ONTOPIC)

Or I could give you a hard time in reverse!

One could be Xth generation white (historically European at some point), South African and move here- and be African-American.  Or one could be an Xth generation black American who moves to South Africa (American-South African?) and marries a white European-South-African and their children move back to the USA who are thus both black and white South-African-African-European-African-South-African-American?

I love political correctness, because it gives me the wonderful opportunity to throw out how hypocritical it all is.  I harassed someone just a few days ago who said, in the same sentence, "African-American", "Asian-American" and then "White", by asking a return question using the terms "Black", "Yellow" and then "European-American."

Just so just say "a black void" and be done with it :)
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: The Kilogram....Huh?
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2018, 08:57:56 pm »
i see we are getting tired...



" We assume you are converting between milliliter and gram [water]. You can view more details on each measurement unit: milliliters or grams The SI derived unit for volume is the cubic meter. 1 cubic meter is equal to 1000000 milliliters, or 1000000 grams"

SO;  1cc=1mg=1ml amazing concept of volume and weight/mass of water.
 
not theory, a defined unit of measurement... a physically defined "law" which is part of the metric basis....not my fault, blame those the set the parameters of "the laws"...

night night, I'm off to bed.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 03:30:13 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline maxtog

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Re: The Kilogram....Huh?
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2018, 09:30:55 pm »
Just like about 1/2 of the world's homo sapiens sapiens population are "Fe-persons", or about 1/2 of the US population are "Gyno- Americans'.

The latter was easy, but even Urban Dictionary wasn't much help on the former... flat earth?

Quote
...hope it is no where near a kilogram; there, now we are back ONTOPIC)

Ug.... if we must.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: The Kilogram....Huh?
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2018, 06:19:09 pm »
Whatever happened to Marty? He seemed so interested in this subject......?

 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Brian
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Offline maxtog

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Re: The Kilogram....Huh?
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2018, 08:23:26 pm »
Whatever happened to Marty? He seemed so interested in this subject......?

He is off building that balance...
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Offline Hooligan

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Re: The Kilogram....Huh?
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2018, 12:27:13 am »
Now what did us South African do wrong to get pulled into the conversation here....? But seeing you brought it up, lets carry on.....

So, my father's side of the family is a mixture of Irish (Butler) and Dutch (de Koning) origins, while my mother's side is French (du Plesis) and Dutch (le Roes) origins.

I'm 12th generation South African, as a family member went and did research on the French side of the family tree (du Plesis), all the way back to France in the year 1658.


Now, I have 2x questions for you.....

1) What does that mixture of origins make me?
2) If you are travelling at 60Km/H, how long must the rope be to tie the canoe to the jetty, before drinking a liter the water? 




Or I could give you a hard time in reverse!

One could be Xth generation white (historically European at some point), South African and move here- and be African-American.  Or one could be an Xth generation black American who moves to South Africa (American-South African?) and marries a white European-South-African and their children move back to the USA who are thus both black and white South-African-African-European-African-South-African-American?

I love political correctness, because it gives me the wonderful opportunity to throw out how hypocritical it all is.  I harassed someone just a few days ago who said, in the same sentence, "African-American", "Asian-American" and then "White", by asking a return question using the terms "Black", "Yellow" and then "European-American."

Just so just say "a black void" and be done with it :)
It is what it is....If not, it must be something else.
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Offline fartymarty

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Re: The Kilogram....Huh?
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2018, 09:21:43 am »
1) What does that mixture of origins make me?
2) If you are traveling at 60Km/H, how long must the rope be to tie the canoe to the jetty, before drinking a liter the water?

1) I'd just go with Dutch and let the rest of your genetic heritage go in most situations where the subject comes up. However, if more detail is really needed, then I'd get some genetic
testing done to determine your true origins. Many have found out that some mistakes and/or fabrication were given in the oral history of their ancestral makeup. Some have been arrested
as well, so make sure your DNA isn't somewhere it shouldn't be, before you get sampled.
2) The rope needs to be the same length as it was before drinking the liter of water (this calculation does not take into account tidal fluctuation since time and date, nor jetty coordinates were not specified in the original scenario), and if you're only going 60km/H then your C14 must be in the shop and you're riding a borrowed typical V-twin cruiser?

Whatever happened to Marty? He seemed so interested in this subject......?

 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Brian
I was hoping for a 3rd grade explanation of whether a gram is now based on 1/1000 of a Kilogram as measured on a Kimble balance or is it still defined by the weight of one cc of water @4 degrees Celsius. If there was an answer to that posted already, it flew right over me. If it is still based on the one cc of water formula, I don't see how we've made as much progress as we could have in this new development.

He is off building that balance...

HA!  :rotflmao: No, my level of interest isn't that high.  ;D




Offline B.D.F.

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Re: The Kilogram....Huh?
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2018, 01:40:18 pm »
A gram is a man- made amount of a fundamental unit, which is mass. But mass has no actual units so the gram is simply assigned to it by us, as the meter was assigned to the fundamental unit length. Now that two completely 'made up' things cross, the cc and a gram of water, is by design when making these imaginary units in the first place and they are very handy for general calculations but still, none of them are linked to anything fundamental or effectively, "real".

There are seven fundamental units or basic units. All others are derived, compounded (such as MPH which is length divided by time, two fundamental units) or some completely man made 'measurement' that are not fundamental or relatable to anything fundamental. The fundamental units are these:

Length
Mass
Brightness (candela)
Current (ampere)
Temperature
Mole
Time

Then there are the four fundamental forces known and they are:

Electromagnetism
Gravity
The Strong force (atomic level only)
The Weak force (atomic level only)

A cubic centimeter of water is a derived unit, consisting of length X length X length. A volume of water measured in any way NOT based on fundamental units is simply a man made 'unit', created so either 1) we can get a handle on something easily- we buy gasoline in gallons, easy and handy but meaningless in the physics world or 2) some link such as one gram is one cubic centimeter of water at a temperature, which is merely man- made units designed to align volume to mass to length or similar.

The Kibble balance has allowed us to define a kilogram by comparing it directly with a fundamental force, which means that the man- made UNIT of a fundamental measurement can now be defined by another man- made UNIT of a different fundamental force. That plus the fact that we can readily only measure one of them (force, not mass) so we can now quantify mass in the physics world.

Or at least that is how it works in my corner of the universe..... I think. :-)

Brian


<snip>

 I was hoping for a 3rd grade explanation of whether a gram is now based on 1/1000 of a Kilogram as measured on a Kimble balance or is it still defined by the weight of one cc of water @4 degrees Celsius. If there was an answer to that posted already, it flew right over me. If it is still based on the one cc of water formula, I don't see how we've made as much progress as we could have in this new development.

HA!  :rotflmao: No, my level of interest isn't that high.  ;D
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline Conniesaki

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Re: The Kilogram....Huh?
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2018, 02:50:15 pm »
If something weighs # units, or is X units long, or is X degrees temp, or is X bright, etc, but nobody is there to measure it, does it really?

Offline maxtog

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Re: The Kilogram....Huh?
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2018, 03:32:11 pm »
If something weighs # units, or is X units long, or is X degrees temp, or is X bright, etc, but nobody is there to measure it, does it really?

Just don't go putting cats into boxes....
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Offline Poseidon

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Re: The Kilogram....Huh?
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2018, 08:03:53 pm »
Just don't go putting cats into boxes....

And if you do, shake it up really good!  :rotflmao:
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Offline fartymarty

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Re: The Kilogram....Huh?
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2018, 09:28:55 am »
A gram is a man- made amount of a fundamental unit, which is mass. But mass has no actual units so the gram is simply assigned to it by us, as the meter was assigned to the fundamental unit length. Now that two completely 'made up' things cross, the cc and a gram of water, is by design when making these imaginary units in the first place and they are very handy for general calculations but still, none of them are linked to anything fundamental or effectively, "real".

There are seven fundamental units or basic units. All others are derived, compounded (such as MPH which is length divided by time, two fundamental units) or some completely man made 'measurement' that are not fundamental or relatable to anything fundamental. The fundamental units are these:

Length
Mass
Brightness (candela)
Current (ampere)
Temperature
Mole
Time

Then there are the four fundamental forces known and they are:

Electromagnetism
Gravity
The Strong force (atomic level only)
The Weak force (atomic level only)

A cubic centimeter of water is a derived unit, consisting of length X length X length. A volume of water measured in any way NOT based on fundamental units is simply a man made 'unit', created so either 1) we can get a handle on something easily- we buy gasoline in gallons, easy and handy but meaningless in the physics world or 2) some link such as one gram is one cubic centimeter of water at a temperature, which is merely man- made units designed to align volume to mass to length or similar.

The Kibble balance has allowed us to define a kilogram by comparing it directly with a fundamental force, which means that the man- made UNIT of a fundamental measurement can now be defined by another man- made UNIT of a different fundamental force. That plus the fact that we can readily only measure one of them (force, not mass) so we can now quantify mass in the physics world.

Or at least that is how it works in my corner of the universe..... I think. :-)

Brian


Thanks, I think. Well OK, that was very informative.
 However I still had to read between the lines to guess that a gram is no longer the weight of 1 cc of water at 4 degrees C, but is now 1/1000 of a kilogram as measured by a Kimble balance. Still a guess however. Since I still haven't built my Kimble balance, I think I'll go get a box of cats to shake up and see if I get better results.

Offline Poseidon

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Re: The Kilogram....Huh?
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2018, 12:37:28 pm »
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: The Kilogram....Huh?
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2018, 01:57:08 pm »
The gram was never based on any volume measurement of water. At one time, it was based on 1/1000 th of that 'magic' block sitting at NIST (I still think of it as the Bureau of Weights and Measures, which is probably how you think of it also- same agency although expanded in function).

The meter is arbritrary also: it was originally one ten- millionth of the distance from the equator to the north pole. Pretty random, eh?

Watch out for the 'cat stuff' though, just like the arrow example (if it takes 1/2 of the time for an arrow to travel 1/2 way to its target, and 3/4 of the time for it to get 3/4 of that distance..... then it holds that as the distance can be divided infinitely, so too can the arrow's displacement.... therefore, the arrow will never reach its target. Any arrow, under any circumstances). All horrible examples of sound science either miss- applied or simply used in an example or way that they do not work. Basically, mental masturbation. Be especially wary of anything that uses Heisenberg's 'uncertainty principle'; a very real and sound piece of science.... when it is applied to the uncertainty of knowing both an object's exact position and exact velocity at the same time. Otherwise, it is generally simply misapplied such as to be not only useless but misleading in that someone is actually saying (or writing) something useful.

Brian

Thanks, I think. Well OK, that was very informative.
 However I still had to read between the lines to guess that a gram is no longer the weight of 1 cc of water at 4 degrees C, but is now 1/1000 of a kilogram as measured by a Kimble balance. Still a guess however. Since I still haven't built my Kimble balance, I think I'll go get a box of cats to shake up and see if I get better results.

Previously I had written: "A gram is a man- made amount of a fundamental unit, which is mass. But mass has no actual units so the gram is simply assigned to it by us, as the meter was assigned to the fundamental unit length. Now that two completely 'made up' things cross, the cc and a gram of water, is by design when making these imaginary units in the first place and they are very handy for general calculations but still, none of them are linked to anything fundamental or effectively, "real". "
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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