Author Topic: Key stuck  (Read 3436 times)

Offline maxtog

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Re: Key stuck
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2019, 08:11:41 pm »
Did everything as instructed and the only difference being, which I think is a positive is I held my fob up to switch and now the bike truly wakes up when I push down.  The dash lights and the stove knob insignia mocks me

Ah, so your active fob battery is probably dead.  So replace that first

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but still zero movement. I guess my fob battery is dead......

You used your active fob as a passive one by holding it directly on the "special spot", and the bike wakes, so that means the switch is NOT stuck (or at least it isn't anymore).  At that point, you should be able to turn the key.  If not, you had/have more than one problem at the same time.

Now I am stumped.  There should be a solenoid that activates when the bike wakes up, that is what allows the key to turn.  Perhaps that is also not activating- which could be physical or electrical.  If there is enough power for the computer to wake and turn the dash on, it should be enough power to also trigger the solenoid.  When the bike wakes from pushing the knob down, does it stay on for several seconds, or die almost immediately after waking?

And this is a stupid question, but I don't think the key will turn when it is depressed- you aren't trying to turn it while it is pushed down, are you?  Press, wake, release, turn.  Sorry, have to ask, not meant to be insulting.  The stranger the problem, the stranger the questions :)
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Key stuck
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2019, 08:14:42 pm »
By the way, since you have a 2009, you don't have the stronger switch spring, unless you had the ignition switch worked on at some point after the new part came out (and the dealer knew about it).  So your model is going to be more prone to the switch problem than later models, especially due to age.  But you probably already knew that.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline BrianK

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Re: Key stuck
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2019, 09:34:44 pm »
It stays on for several seconds and when it first comes on I can here a click sound which is probably the solenoid. Everything seems to be functioning as should be except it actually turning. All the way up 1/2 way down doesn't matter it won't move......

Offline maxtog

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Re: Key stuck
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2019, 05:35:15 am »
I am out of ideas now.  To me, it sounds like a mechanical failure related to the solenoid.  It might be activating, but not traveling fully, or some linkage being broken/stuck.  Just for giggles, did you try the spare non-knob metal key from inside the fob yet?  I can't imagine that would make any difference.  I am not a fan of WD40 or dousing, since it can cause problems later, and in this case, might not even be able to make it to the appropriate area.  It might require ignition disassembly :(

The only times I have ever had a problem turning the key (when the bike wakes) is moving from lock to off because the steering lock engage was putting too much pressure on the mechanism and it requires moving the steering a bit (pretty common in cars, too).  But that should not be an issue in the off, on, or fss positions.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Key stuck
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2019, 05:39:36 am »
Sounds to me like the key is bent.  It happens, the key is made out of chocolate.  This especially happens if you take the key out and use it for it's intended purposes such as the gas hole, cases, and seat removal.  One of the reasons I NEVER EVER take it out of the ignition key hole. 
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Key stuck
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2019, 06:15:01 am »
C'mon Jim, you do not take the key out of the bike because you do not own it anymore.  ;D

As to the bent key, I do not believe that could bind up the lock cylinder to prevent it from turning; removing the key, sure but the OP cannot turn the key.

We have been in touch via e-mail and this one is a head- scratcher. It is possible that the pin on the end of the solenoid is broken or stuck but I really doubt that. The only thing left is that the key cylinder itself is frozen inside the cylinder housing. I have never seen that but it is always possible for anything that moves mechanically to be frozen / corroded / physically damaged so it fails to turn. ??

Brian

Sounds to me like the key is bent.  It happens, the key is made out of chocolate.  This especially happens if you take the key out and use it for it's intended purposes such as the gas hole, cases, and seat removal.  One of the reasons I NEVER EVER take it out of the ignition key hole.
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Offline BrianK

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Re: Key stuck
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2019, 07:23:32 am »
I can assure you the issue is NOT a bent key.  The stove knob rarely leaves its perch and is in great condition

Offline BrianK

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Re: Key stuck
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2019, 07:39:46 am »
I am out of ideas now.  To me, it sounds like a mechanical failure related to the solenoid.  It might be activating, but not traveling fully, or some linkage being broken/stuck.  Just for giggles, did you try the spare non-knob metal key from inside the fob yet?  I can't imagine that would make any difference.  I am not a fan of WD40 or dousing, since it can cause problems later, and in this case, might not even be able to make it to the appropriate area.  It might require ignition disassembly :(

The only times I have ever had a problem turning the key (when the bike wakes) is moving from lock to off because the steering lock engage was putting too much pressure on the mechanism and it requires moving the steering a bit (pretty common in cars, too).  But that should not be an issue in the off, on, or fss positions.
Yes sir tried the spare ignition key with same result

Offline PH14

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Re: Key stuck
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2019, 07:50:56 am »
Yes bike wakes up,  it wasn't at first then when it did I thought for millisecond yay fixed but unfortunately no such luck so I am miffed right about now...

But what does the display say?

Offline BrianK

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Re: Key stuck
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2019, 08:57:21 am »
But what does the display say?
Same thing it has always displayed. A rendering of the stove knob with two arrows wrapping around it,  one pointing clockwise the other ccw

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Key stuck
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2019, 09:14:05 am »
This is  a new problem, at least to me. It will be interesting to see what is causing that problem.

Brian

Same thing it has always displayed. A rendering of the stove knob with two arrows wrapping around it,  one pointing clockwise the other ccw
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Key stuck
« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2019, 03:42:44 pm »
This is  a new problem, at least to me. It will be interesting to see what is causing that problem.

I have never seen/heard of this happening before either.  I still suspect a physical problem with the solenoid linkage or perhaps the cylinder is damaged and will just not turn and the ignition will need to be disassembled.  In such a case, I would strongly recommend a competent dealer.

Since we have not seen this before, it can be surmised this is a very rare thing.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline BrianK

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Re: Key stuck
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2019, 04:25:05 pm »
Got home 1/2 hr ago been at it since.  No change.  Tonight I will swing a little harder, douse a little heavier then disassemble this weekend if no change.  There will be no dealership involvement it will be fixed in my garage by me

Offline maxtog

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Re: Key stuck
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2019, 06:31:38 pm »
frankly Max, I'm just gonna drop this one, and let you figure it n out...

Not sure why you are having to be nasty... (at least it appears to me to be that way, as I am guessing most people would.).

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I'm strictly basing this on all the responses prior, and when you had the response of the "lock" position, vs the "FSS"Position... I actually double face palmed myself..

My line of questioning was wondering if the steering lock persisted, somehow, even though it was in the fss position, thinking maybe it could bind the key from turning (as can sometimes happen when it is actually in the lock position).  I am not sure if that is possible, it was just wild speculation.

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great find relating to the solenoid... which I noted prior as the switch issue...
 :thumbs: :thumbs: :nuts: :nuts: :popcorn: :popcorn: in response #25...duh.

The microswitch and solenoid are two different things of which one or the other or both can fail.

Is this some type of competition or game?  I can assure you, it wasn't/isn't for me.  I thought we were trying to solve a problem for someone...

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I'm gonna have a nice cup of tea, and resign from "further " attempts...[...]thanx Max.  you handle this one, I'm out.

 ::)  Yeesh.  I see no reason to punish BrianK (and insulting me) because you are apparently assigning hostility or malice to something I said.  I can assure you, no such thing was intended.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

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Re: Key stuck
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2019, 06:49:19 pm »
Got home 1/2 hr ago been at it since.  No change.  Tonight I will swing a little harder, douse a little heavier then disassemble this weekend if no change.  There will be no dealership involvement it will be fixed in my garage by me

:)  You are a braver soul than I, for sure!  Having my gas cap assembly fall apart into a pile of little pieces that are undocumented in the factory manual was traumatic enough to make me very "lock shy."  I just tried to find a diagram of the ignition switch assembly, no luck.  Yuck.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc