Author Topic: petcock leaking again  (Read 4136 times)

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: petcock leaking again
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2019, 07:53:39 am »
Darn..I hate finding out about another trashed C10 engine. I just got off the phone with an old friend of mine.  He told me he had recently  installed a manual petcock. Yesterday he went to start the bike and the he heard a big 'clunk' and now it wont turn over. I had him do a test.  The engine is locked. He has a severely bent rod.  The engine is toast. I told him long ago  that a manual petcock increases the risk of   a Hydro-lock event. Did he listen??.... nope.  I told him long ago that we have seen manual petcocks hydro-lock engines before . Did he listen? Nope.   I told him that a properly maintained OEM petcock would have prevented hydro-lock. Did he listen?  nope.     Was this preventable? Of course. Did he listen to me and get overflow tubes installed? Nope.  We can only advise people. We cannot force people. He is definitely listening to my advise now.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 08:25:09 am by Daytona_Mike »
If you still have fuel in the tank, you are not lost yet
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle

Offline gpineau

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Re: petcock leaking again
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2019, 09:56:49 am »
VirginiaJim nailed it months ago. FUEL INJECTION solves the problem.
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: petcock leaking again
« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2019, 10:19:42 am »
VirginiaJim nailed it months ago. FUEL INJECTION solves the problem.

+1  I agree. Fuel injection is far superior. The only problem is the cost and time involved when converting to  fuel injection from carburators is a wee bit more expensive than  simply adding OverFlow Tubes.
If you still have fuel in the tank, you are not lost yet
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle

Offline gpineau

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Re: petcock leaking again
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2019, 11:34:02 am »
Steve charges $450 to rework the carbs and install the overflow tubes.  $450 goes a long ways toward EFI.   Just saying.
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: petcock leaking again
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2019, 04:35:20 pm »
Steve charges $450 to rework the carbs and install the overflow tubes.  $450 goes a long ways toward EFI.   Just saying.
That's a great service at a really good price IF your carbs need rebuilding and  that includes new jets..balanced and  2 Minute mod and more. Basically better than brand new
I installed over flow tubes for about $1.50 in parts. The directions are also free  and posted on the COG forum. It's not that hard to just remove the bowls and have them done or find used bowls from the old Voyager. Those fit and already have overflow tubes
If you still have fuel in the tank, you are not lost yet
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle

Offline gpineau

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Re: petcock leaking again
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2020, 12:32:24 pm »
Not that it matters now that the discussion has ended.

My Honda Magna came with a solenoid valve in fuel line. Any time the switch was off, so was the fuel.  The original owner said it was to keep it from dripping on the garage floor.  It was easier to install this than to pull the carbs off a V4 engine.

It looked like this.
https://www.amazon.com/4inch-Normally-Closed-Electric-Solenoid/dp/B00ON8XFSO/ref=sr_1_19?crid=3BBUWIW14QP13&keywords=12+volt+fuel+valve&qid=1578079361&sprefix=12+volt+fuel+va%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-19
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: petcock leaking again
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2020, 04:20:18 am »
Not that it matters now that the discussion has ended.

My Honda Magna came with a solenoid valve in fuel line. Any time the switch was off, so was the fuel.  The original owner said it was to keep it from dripping on the garage floor.  It was easier to install this tha..
... Not a good idea

Another bad idea. First ....  Honda Sabers and Magnas already came with overflow tubes. ( I had Saber 1000...which is a non raked version of the Magna cruiser --- which did not handle near as well as the Saber). 

So what is the point of hiding \ masking a bad leaky float   valve with  a solenoid.  Those bikes were manual peacocks anyway so the only thing a solenoid did was add an  additional point of failure...mask a problem..restrict fuel flow...and zero benefit....well No gas on the floor because the raw gas went into the engine or on the ground as he rides down the road  unaware of the problem except the rider wonders why the bike has such shifty gas mileage..

Fix the bad float valve would the correct proceedure.  Overflow tubes are important..then do what ever you want..Manual petcock ..electric solenoids. ..fuel injection of course if you prefer.
If you still have fuel in the tank, you are not lost yet
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: petcock leaking again
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2020, 06:14:06 pm »
I was trying to refrain from comments.. as they seem to be too technical for some folks.. but I have to comment.

Using an "air" valve, as noted, for gasoline, is pretty ... well, I'm not gonna say the multi-word.

to condone, or even suggest it, or accept it, is totally irresponsible. If someone wants a fuel shutoff, find one rated for FUEL...
that in essence, combined by the flow and thermal attributes of the valve noted, just places people into the "Darwin zone".
suggesting this, to a forum of people that don't get/may not be, really technical, places the burden of shame, on the person posting.

BTW, a bunch of this is old school, many times discussed,(we have discussed, and examined all the "cheap" fuel valves, and found actual passage port sizes in the 1/8", to .140" diameters), and found to be not really viable for use.. the actual "flow" orifice, within the valves suitable for fuel, are way too small (don't confuse the NPT fitting size of 1/4", with the actual port thru the valve body, which is greatly diminished)..

If you doubt this, call Murph... when this first popped up, he did find a suitable valve, but in later discovery,(after some of us tested flow characteristics, ) decided the flow was "not reliable", and dropped it.. some of us have been here a long time, trying solutions. Best solution is a good petcock build, and associated overflow tubes as a backup.
nuff said. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline gpineau

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Re: petcock leaking again
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2020, 06:31:57 pm »
MOB,
I knew you couldn't resist.
Didn't suggest it. Just said one of my previous bikes came with it.
Not sure it was that exact valve, just that it looked like it.


Daytona_Mike,
Maybe you have seen them but, I've rebuild several magna carbs and have never, ever seen overflow tubes.
Whatever the reason he put that electric shutoff valve on the bike it is not such a bad idea as a fail safe to prevent hydro-lock.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: petcock leaking again
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2020, 06:50:58 pm »
Not that it matters now that the discussion has ended.

My Honda Magna came with a solenoid valve in fuel line. Any time the switch was off, so was the fuel.  The original owner said it was to keep it from dripping on the garage floor.  It was easier to install this than to pull the carbs off a V4 engine.

It looked like this.
https://www.amazon.com/4inch-Normally-Closed-Electric-Solenoid/dp/B00ON8XFSO/ref=sr_1_19?crid=3BBUWIW14QP13&keywords=12+volt+fuel+valve&qid=1578079361&sprefix=12+volt+fuel+va%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-19


 I just went on your post.
Unless you specify the exact valve, I stand by my comment.

I always tend to educate people to do safe things. You may mistake my intent, but that is not something bad.
good luck.

having watched your "progress", and attempts to modernize things, while basically taking a hammer to your hand, I find anything can be done, but with tried methods, and history, the "wheel" doesn not have to be re-invented from scratch.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=24374.msg304192#msg304192

I have endless time on my hands, but find the technology for every machine, worthy of just "maintaining".. I wish I had your $$$.

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline Boomer

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Re: petcock leaking again
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2020, 05:18:09 am »
Petcock rebuilds = wasted money. Been there, done that, too many times, and no matter how careful or meticulous you are they just don't last that long.

Just fit a new $90 OEM petcock and the overflow tubes.
That way you can forget about the petcock for 10+ years, and when it does fail, the gas will pour onto the floor rather than into the cylinders.
George "Boomer" Garratt
Wickford, UK


Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: petcock leaking again
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2020, 08:39:18 am »
Petcock rebuilds = wasted money. Been there, done that, too many times, and no matter how careful or meticulous you are they just don't last that long.

Just fit a new $90 OEM petcock and the overflow tubes.
That way you can forget about the petcock for 10+ years, and when it does fail, the gas will pour onto the floor rather than into the cylinders.
+1   AND their is another huge benefit when buying a new OEM petcock. You also get a brand new fuel filter that is integrated into the petcock.  Those mesh screens / filters get distorted and fail after a period of time and need to be replaced. When that filter fails debris then   gets past the petcock and into the floats/needles  of the carbs and  leaks will occur.
If you still have fuel in the tank, you are not lost yet
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle

Offline deuce72

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Re: petcock leaking again
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2020, 09:18:18 am »
Ok, have read all the banter and I have two basic questions that require basic, simplistic answers due to my inability to hang with some of the jargen.

Other than using the "rod" method to measure the valves for hydrolock, what are the signs and symptoms of a concours that is hydrolocked but still is running and riding? I'm referring to the post on the petcock thread where someone mentioned that they may not be aware of their hydrolock issue?

Lastly, I'm interested in the DIY overflow tubes. Can someone send me a link?

Thanks!

deuce
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Offline gpineau

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Re: petcock leaking again
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2020, 11:04:25 am »
Duce72, This is a real touchy subject around here.  I know I am going to regret this but I will attempt to answer from my knowledge base.

you know that hydro-lock is caused by leaky float needle valves in combination with a leaky petcock.  Depending on how bad the leak and how long it has been sitting, leaking you may have a little fuel in the cylinder or it may be completely full.  If partially filled you will hear a knock when you start it and you may or may not have just bent a rod.  This is the case of hydro-locked but still running. 

If the cylinder is completely full the bike will refuse to turn over and behave as though the engine is seized.  STOP there and pull the plugs and spin the engine to get the gas out of the cylinder(s).
Do this outside and stand clear. When mine refused to turn over i pulled the plugs and witnessed a shower of gasoline when I touched the starter.

I don't know of any DIY overflow tubes but may others can help with that.

I have suggested on here that you can add a 12 volt operated valve that will shut off fuel when the key is off. Some purists here think that a silly idea. I think it is good insurance.
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Offline deuce72

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Re: petcock leaking again
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2020, 05:52:58 pm »


Thank you gpineau for the info. Thankfully I have put in a new carb kit last year which included new needles and some of the orings. Also, I'm going on season 3 for the petcock. So far so good!
98 Concours