Author Topic: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!  (Read 1402 times)

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2708
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2019, 03:35:29 pm »
Wow, I was not even aware that there is anything other than an OEM fuel pump ass'y that will fit in a C-14 but if you did replace the entire ass'y with something [non OEM] I am especially suspect of its output.

It is unlikely to be any type of electrical issue IMO because the ignition system is all independent (each of the four cylinders), and generally electrical issues are more ON and OFF than limiting in power / RPM. Hey, it is possible but that is not where I would start looking- again, the fuel pump assembly including the fuel pressure regulator (located inside at the top of the ass'y). Test output with a pressure gauge (usually 39 PSI but check the manual for the actual number), then a volume test- see how long it takes to pump some known volume, such as a quart.

I had this same problem on an Expedition once: it would start right up and idle but adding any throttle was a struggle. A quick volume check showed the pump's output was far short of the normal range and it was not subtle. The bad news is that it was a LOT easier to test than it is on a C-14 as there is a test valve in the fuel line under the hood, and the pump was easy to power-up through the fusebox, also under the hood.

Brian

HERE is a link to another aftermarket replacement pump, a couple guys on the other forum have actually purchased, and ran them, and had nothing bad to say about them at all..that same place sells the filter socks for 3 for $14

https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-23443610-quantum-t35-intank-fuel-pump-with-strainers-for-kawasaki-concours-14-zg1400-2008-2018.html


30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4783
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2019, 04:14:22 pm »
OK, that makes sense as it is a component kit rather than a fuel pump ass'y. There are very few O.E.M. pumps on the market, I think it is three to be exact, so just the fuel pump is not hard to get. But a complete ass'y, with the low fuel warning, the metal mount and tank seal, the piping and wiring harnesses- I would be amazed if anyone other than the original manufacturer actually made one for a C-14. In fact, most motorcycles with very few exceptions.

According to the list of parts (printed) as well as the colored component diagram, that kit does not come with a pressure regulator. If that is the case, and the O.P. has a bad regulator, his symptoms and experience would make perfect sense because he would not have actually replaced the defective part.

As an aside, I was working at a company that was machining an aspect of an automotive air conditioning compressor and I asked 'for which brand'. The reply was 'all of them'. Not like the olden days, today parts manufacturers often make a component or assembly for 'cars' and it is the truly single source for the entire world. So the 'Chevy vs. Ford' argument is getting watered down all the time 'cause whichever one you choose, they share a LOT of parts / assemblies.

Brian

HERE is a link to another aftermarket replacement pump, a couple guys on the other forum have actually purchased, and ran them, and had nothing bad to say about them at all..that same place sells the filter socks for 3 for $14

https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-23443610-quantum-t35-intank-fuel-pump-with-strainers-for-kawasaki-concours-14-zg1400-2008-2018.html
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2708
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2019, 06:23:44 pm »
OK, that makes sense as it is a component kit rather than a fuel pump ass'y. There are very few O.E.M. pumps on the market, I think it is three to be exact, so just the fuel pump is not hard to get. But a complete ass'y, with the low fuel warning, the metal mount and tank seal, the piping and wiring harnesses- I would be amazed if anyone other than the original manufacturer actually made one for a C-14. In fact, most motorcycles with very few exceptions.

According to the list of parts (printed) as well as the colored component diagram, that kit does not come with a pressure regulator. If that is the case, and the O.P. has a bad regulator, his symptoms and experience would make perfect sense because he would not have actually replaced the defective part.

As an aside, I was working at a company that was machining an aspect of an automotive air conditioning compressor and I asked 'for which brand'. The reply was 'all of them'. Not like the olden days, today parts manufacturers often make a component or assembly for 'cars' and it is the truly single source for the entire world. So the 'Chevy vs. Ford' argument is getting watered down all the time 'cause whichever one you choose, they share a LOT of parts / assemblies.

Brian

I don't see anyone producing the check valve/pressure valve as an aftermarket part, nor can I find it in the Kaw system.. it's a "small' assembled part, that you can pull out during the dis-assembly of the stock pump,it has the 2 o-rings on it...  when doing a filter sock replacement.. I sprayed gumout in mine, and blew it out with compressed air (carefully) during the cleaning and r/r process..

https://www.kawasaki.com/Parts/PartsDiagram/218322/2019/ZG1400EKF


30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline ginzburg

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 41
Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2019, 01:56:16 pm »
I was reading about the TPS calibration here. http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18016.0

This thread is pretty long and I don't know what the conclusion was. Can the TPS be recalibrated in this manner? I could see it being inadvertently calibrated in this way. Could it cause similar symptoms if it is completely out of wack? If it does work this way, then maybe it is just worth trying since it is so easy.

Offline speedracersworld

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Country: us
  • 817-821-0448
Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2019, 03:26:12 pm »
I did the TPS Reset/ Recalibration twice but no difference. I'm gonna replace the FPR or the whole  (ZX14) pump assembly when I get a chance in a couple of days & update you all.

Here's the Fuel Pressure Regulator; same for all bikes!
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173748331444
There's more to Life than the Mainstream Media or "Reality" TV! Question Everything!


2008 Neutron Silver & 2016 Metallic Moondust Gray

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2708
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2019, 05:57:02 pm »
I did the TPS Reset/ Recalibration twice but no difference. I'm gonna replace the FPR or the whole  (ZX14) pump assembly when I get a chance in a couple of days & update you all.

Here's the Fuel Pressure Regulator; same for all bikes!
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173748331444

I'm sorry if I again seem to be quite blunt about buying "stuff' off ebay, but if you actually looked, and I'm sure you didn't, you would find as I said, you can't buy that individual KAW OEM part...

the numbers they used on the website you linked, are for a complete pump assembly.. I don't think you are really getting this thing, about "real" vs "available" parts people sell..
I just did a complete fuel pump clean/filter/reinstall about 2 weeks ago.. i assure you you are gambling and tossing money to an E-bay vendor, that is falsly representing what he has in hand... it's your $$$$$.. and your bike, but man, be a bit more dilligent, run numbers, and check sources.

actually, when you go to the "source", and compare the fuel pump assembly, and this supposed regulator, they repeat the exact same numbers.. can you buy things online, from a source with little credibility, when they make such grave errors in the marketing, and part number's you expect?
https://www.fuelpumpfactory.com/collections/all/motorcycles---scooters-2008-kawasaki-concours-14--zg1400--efi-esr4669762


as for the TPS reset thing... we hashed this all out for a decade.. it's pure hogwash, with regard to the C14.. it will do nothing.. I did it many times, trying to believe it, but in the end, consorting with my long time mechanical cronies, we have found the ECU is what it is, you can't "re-set" anything, like the off-on-off throttle thing was touted to do.. this came directly as a result of BMW's systems, used on the GS series, and does not in any way shape, or form, even make a difference when attempted on a C14.
The ONLY thing, that will change throttle roll on roll off, is a flash. Whomever you choose to perform it, is up to you. I have a Mountain Runner Premium flash, a couple weeks old... my miles per gallon went from approx 40, to 53 even tho I was abusing the bike much harder, than ever before.. to test the flash.. I can't say enough about just HOW MUCH, it changed my '08.

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8106
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2019, 06:33:56 pm »
The ONLY thing, that will change throttle roll on roll off, is a flash.

Actually, a ThrottleTamer will do it, too.  That is what I used for many years before the recent Steve's reflash.  Guhl's flash does nothing for throttle taming, but Steve's does.... now I have TOO MUCH throttle taming :)  I suppose one day I need to remove the ThrottleTamer, but I like that it is metal and so smooth.  Anyway, so now the Tamer is redundant with a good flash.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline ginzburg

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 41
Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2019, 01:50:12 am »
If it turns out not to be the fuel, I saw another possibility on a ZX-14 that was described as a bogging issue and they described it as acting like a fueling issue. In that case it turned out to be the vehicle down sensor shorting out and cutting the fuel intermittantly. It seems pretty unlikely on the Concours that it would have as many problems with it as on the ZX-14 due to the different location and mounting though. It did not have an error code, but I do think it had the flashing temperature sensor.


Offline speedracersworld

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Country: us
  • 817-821-0448
Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2019, 09:35:33 pm »
OK!! Problem Solved!! I installed the ZX14 Fuel Pump Assembly and she ran like a Bat Outta Hell! The Fuel Pressure regulator was the one piece that I didn't think of changing in the Fuel Pump Assembly. So much for Insignificance. I still have the other "Aftermarket" Pump assembly and got the replacement Fuel Pressure Regulator that I will assemble & install later. It feels good to finally have solved the mystery. Thank You ALL For your Advice & Input!!!

What I figured was the FPR was Bypassing below the Normal Pressure. The bike had enough Fuel Pressure to start, idle and accelerate up to 4K rpms but after that there wasn't enough Fuel Pressure & Flow for the Demand so it was bogging down; like running lean. Now she accelerates strong and fast all the way up to redline in atleast the first 4 gears. Ran out of clear freeway after that ;)
There's more to Life than the Mainstream Media or "Reality" TV! Question Everything!


2008 Neutron Silver & 2016 Metallic Moondust Gray

Offline connie_rider

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1197
Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2019, 07:25:59 am »
Speedracersworld, glad you solved the problem.
Can you post an image of the ZX14 Fuel Pump Assembly you installed and tell us where you purchased it?
I see where you bought an aftermarket pump and a ZX-14 throttle body, but don't see a link to what you installed?

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 02:17:24 pm by connie_rider »

Offline speedracersworld

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Country: us
  • 817-821-0448
Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2019, 08:58:14 am »
The used eBay ZX14 pump is same part number as the Concours 14. They were identical. I wanted to try a known good pump before tackling the TB's. I was running short on time but will post pics & video of the pump overhaul later. Took me about an hour total to drain, remove the tank & pump, reinstall & reassemble.
There's more to Life than the Mainstream Media or "Reality" TV! Question Everything!


2008 Neutron Silver & 2016 Metallic Moondust Gray

Offline connie_rider

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1197
Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2019, 02:19:50 pm »
Ok, thank you. Assuming you bought something like this?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-12-17-Kawasaki-Ninja-ZX14R-ZX14-Fuel-Pump-Rear-Gas-Pickup-Petrol-2015/254307874526?hash=item3b35ee36de:g:ePMAAOSwQnFdN4Dd

Haven't been into mine and was hoping to see if the image showed the Fuel Pressure regulator in place.

Ride safe, Ted

Offline speedracersworld

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Country: us
  • 817-821-0448
Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2019, 02:40:49 pm »
Yes, exactly. You see the metallic Disc looking Thingy (3rd Picture) towards the Top of the Pump Housing at the Split Seam (about the diameter of a Quarter) Is the Fuel Pressure Regulator. If you remove the 2 screws on top sides & pry apart the top section of the plastic Cover, You'll see the Fuel Pressure Regulator. Be Careful because the Rubber O-rings are holding it down pretty good. Mine went flying the first time!! ;D
There's more to Life than the Mainstream Media or "Reality" TV! Question Everything!


2008 Neutron Silver & 2016 Metallic Moondust Gray

Offline connie_rider

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1197
Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2019, 03:27:06 pm »
Yes, I see it now. Thanks.
I'm assuming you installed a new strainer?

Ride safe, Ted

Offline speedracersworld

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Country: us
  • 817-821-0448
Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2019, 03:38:05 pm »
Yes, I see it now. Thanks.
I'm assuming you installed a new strainer?

Ride safe, Ted

No, mine was like New/ clean. I'll have a detailed disassembly & reassembly of the pump  posted hopefully by tomorrow if my schedule permits.

Adam
There's more to Life than the Mainstream Media or "Reality" TV! Question Everything!


2008 Neutron Silver & 2016 Metallic Moondust Gray