Author Topic: Delkevic full exhaust  (Read 1472 times)

Offline CDII

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Re: Delkevic full exhaust
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2019, 08:35:59 pm »
Just got it back together, no official tests yet, but it feels cooler without the cat, and butt dyno likes the Delkevic header.  Now for a tune! I'll be looking for one for this system.


Offline maxtog

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Re: Delkevic full exhaust
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2019, 05:46:45 am »
Just got it back together, no official tests yet, but it feels cooler without the cat, and butt dyno likes the Delkevic header.  Now for a tune! I'll be looking for one for this system.

Most people's "butt dyno" is based far more on noise/sound than actual power.  Not saying that is the case with you, just pointing something out that I have observed many times over the years.  Especially funny with people swapping just mufflers and claiming so much more power (when in reality, it might be +3hp at 10+K which no human could ever discern.)  With your full exhaust change, you should end up with less power at lower RPM, and more at higher (more like a ZX14 behaves)....  assuming the existing ECU tune doesn't interfere.

Cool that you got it done... I bet it was a lot of work.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline CDII

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Re: Delkevic full exhaust
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2019, 07:44:01 am »
Hi Maxtog
I know wht you mean about butt dyno feel.
I've got a lot of "seat time" in a lot of race machines so I may be different
not that I'm imune to an improved sound byte! :) it is a bit louder.more pops.
Not too bad of a job. Mid & lowers off radiator and of course old system.
Good time to flush the coolant too.
Heat and noise comparison coming.

Offline CDII

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Re: Delkevic full exhaust
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2019, 07:10:39 pm »
The wheels are off.
Getting new tires mounted tomorrow for a trip, but wanted to give a little more info on header performance.
Did only one roll on with a flashed C14.  Went from 5k in 2nd gear knowing mine is a bit off on the low end especially compared to the Steve's flashed bike. Dead even through the top of 3rd gear. I had bags and tools, the other bike didn't.

I hope to compare to an Ivan's flashed 2015 C14 by next week.

I'll let you know how that turns out.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Delkevic full exhaust
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2019, 09:28:26 pm »
Did only one roll on [simultaneous comparison] with a flashed C14.  Went from 5k in 2nd gear knowing mine is a bit off on the low end especially compared to the Steve's flashed bike. Dead even through the top of 3rd gear. I had bags and tools, the other bike didn't.

You also need to take note the weight of the riders, geared.  I only weigh 150 lbs :)  So one can pile all the bags, loaded, on mine, and I will still weigh less than many other riders with no bags/tools.  Weight and aerodynamics make a lot of difference in non-dyno [real-word] tests.

Anyway, I wouldn't expect all that much difference under maybe 7 or 8K rpm.  From looking at charts and posts, the stock exhaust system (including muffler) flows quite well to pretty darn high rpm.  In any case, there is a trade-off, lose some low power, gain some high power.  So it depends on how you ride as to which is "better."

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I hope to compare to an Ivan's flashed 2015 C14 by next week.  I'll let you know how that turns out.

Kewl!
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Delkevic full exhaust
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2019, 07:03:05 am »
In the roll on, his bike was flashed and has a slip on?
Yours has the Delk full system, but is not flashed?

Ride safe, Ted

Offline CDII

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Re: Delkevic full exhaust
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2019, 08:41:08 am »
That's right Ted mine has no flash yet just full Delkevic system. His has Delk 14" slip on.
Thanks for the reminder Maxtog.
His bike is 625 w/half tank of fuel, mine is 680 + tools I didn't weigh.
He is 165, I'm 180  :-\. That's more than 70lbs in his favor. Hmm
Can't wait for that flash!

Offline maxtog

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Re: Delkevic full exhaust
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2019, 03:32:17 pm »
That's right Ted mine has no flash yet just full Delkevic system.

Oh, I didn't know you had no flash at all.  That will seriously hurt performance.

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Thanks for the reminder Maxtog.  His bike is 625 w/half tank of fuel, mine is 680 + tools I didn't weigh. He is 165, I'm 180  :-\. That's more than 70lbs in his favor. Hmm

That will matter.

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Can't wait for that flash!

That will matter a LOT.  Matter much much more than anything else you have, will, or can do.  I wish I could see the smile on your face after...
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline CDII

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Re: Delkevic full exhaust
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2019, 07:06:20 pm »
Yes Maxtog
I know Steve's tune made a huge difference.
My newest to me 09 is just as fast from 5k up with just the full exhaust.
I'm sure the tune will help pick more bottom end too.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Delkevic full exhaust
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2019, 07:49:55 pm »
Steve has modified a Full Area P Flash for the Delk. full system.
Several that bought the Delk. System have installed it in their ECU..
Early reports are "very" good...

Ride safe, Ted

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Delkevic full exhaust
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2019, 03:15:56 pm »
I have the new Premium Full AreaP flash from Steve.  You cannot compare that to his previous flashes or even his previous flash that was on my bike.
 It is THAT much better. Holy mackerel. I thought there was no way this bike could be faster.... well.. IT IS~~!!
If you still have fuel in the tank, you are not lost yet
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle

Offline maxtog

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Re: Delkevic full exhaust
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2019, 03:25:04 pm »
I have the new Premium Full AreaP flash from Steve.  You cannot compare that to his previous flashes.  It is THAT much better. Holy mackerel. I thought there was no way this bike could be faster.... well.. IT IS~~!!

Since (like most motorcycles) the Concours has no air mass sensor (and no active O2 sensor in most cases), it depends completely on maps for fuel metering.  These maps has to make lots of assumptions about how much air is going into the engine under all kinds of conditions.  At the high end of the RPM scale (maybe 7K+), there will be a potential performance difference between the stock exhaust and a full exhaust system replacement (and especially combined with TB replacement).  That can't be dialed into the "stock" reflash he offers, because it would hurt stock performance.  So, yeah, if you slap on an AreaP, it makes sense to get a flash specifically designed for it.  (It can also correct some of the loss of power on the low end, too, that I would expect from putting on an AreaP; it can't correct it all, because it will lose some lower-end power, regardless.  But you don't want to make things worse than necessary).

It does make one wonder why we don't have mass air flow sensors.  They aren't THAT expensive or big anymore, and makes things so much easier and more accurate.  Oh well.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline CDII

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Re: Delkevic full exhaust
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2019, 08:42:47 pm »
Thanks guys for all your replies.
I love the big block, and it can get even better!


Offline CDII

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Re: Delkevic full exhaust
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2019, 08:45:47 pm »
Is anyone running the ZX14 throttle bodies with the full Delkevic system?

Does the flash cover any additional bottom end torque/hp loss?

Thanks!

Offline maxtog

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Re: Delkevic full exhaust
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2019, 12:49:36 am »
Is anyone running the ZX14 throttle bodies with the full Delkevic system?

Yes.  Several people have because I have seen such postings in the past.

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Does the flash cover any additional bottom end torque/hp loss?

That question doesn't relate to your first.  I can answer in theory (which is supported by facts, like physics and dyno runs), and did so in my previous post.  Yes, a reflash that is designed specifically for a "full exhaust" should be able to help some compared to a reflash not designed for a "full exhaust", but it will not recover all the lost low-end torque/hp.  It is just a matter of physics :) 

The Concours has more low-end power than a ZX-14 and less high-end power.  Same displacement engine, different design parameters.  Smaller exhaust/TB and different/variable cams allowed the Concours to be tuned to deliver more power in the "comfort" areas where "touring" users are more likely to use it and appreciate it.  The opposite for the ZX-14, where the tuning (exhaust/TB different cam and lack of variable valves) shifted the power to the higher-end, raising the power (and, thus, maximum HP) in the range more appropriate for that type of rider.

The more the Concours engine setup is changed to be like the ZX14, the more loss of low-end power and the more gain in high-end power.  It is a trade-off.  Power can't be invented out of thin air- it is being shifted from one place to another.... aside from the fact that reflashing a stock Concours unlocks the full power it has because it undoes most of the things Kawasaki did for noise and emissions control (so that is kinda "free power").

Knowing the peak HP on a vehicle (which most people obsess over), which is a single point, doesn't tell the story of everything that came before it, as you can see in the attached graph.  So.... is the ZX-14 (reflashed or not) more "powerful" than the reflashed (otherwise stock) Concours?  No.  Is it "faster"?  In few cases, no.  In most cases, yes.  In some cases very much so.  The ZX-14 is lighter (it has fewer features and storage and convenience), is more aerodynamic (making it more uncomfortable), is geared a little lower (which is better for getting the the higher RPM sooner, but not good for keeping in the comfort zone), and has a chain drive which reduces final drive loss (making it require more maintenance).  The cam profile and lack of variable valves makes it less responsive and smooth, less fuel efficient, and louder, in the relaxed-riding RPM range.  It also makes it, overall, less reliable.  Trade-offs.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc