Author Topic: speed limiter question  (Read 1098 times)

Offline Jethrobolas

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speed limiter question
« on: August 21, 2019, 06:40:29 pm »
i glanced at the speedo after letting it breathe in 5th on an open stretch of slab this afternoon. I caught the needle dropping from a couple notches over 160 after I chopped the throttle. It was still pulling strong when I backed off.
After safe arrival at the hideout, I yanked the seat and pulled the ecu out from the strap looking for evidence of tampering (flash sticker).
2012 bought used this April with under 10k miles. I don't feel it runs like its been flashed. Wont come close to power wheelie without clutch in any gear. No sticker, appears bone stock aside from battery tender connector and tires.
I understand indicated speed doesn't mean actual speed, but I was well over 155 (limiter is set at 154 on gen2, no?) as far as the bike was concerned. What gives?
oh, found the rev limiter this morning :-* This thing is FUN. Need to sell a few unused items so I can send the brain on a Florida vacation at concours boot camp for a proper attitude adjustment. Hopefully can sneak that by the financial advisor this winter.

Offline Jethrobolas

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2019, 06:51:39 pm »
Just realized I posted this in the WRONG section. Im sorry, normally use my phone, not used to this computer. Not sure how i wound up posting this here.
mods please fix my foolish error!

Offline maxtog

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2019, 05:40:41 am »
I don't feel it runs like its been flashed.

It isn't too hard to know if it is not flashed.  If there isn't much power below 4K at mid-throttle- not flashed.  If there are noticable power dips at mid or high throttle through 4K-7K- not flashed.  Of course, nothing illustrates the change more than riding it before and after :)

Quote
Need to sell a few unused items so I can send the brain on a Florida vacation at concours boot camp for a proper attitude adjustment.

Definitely
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Conrad

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2019, 06:48:11 am »
i glanced at the speedo after letting it breathe in 5th on an open stretch of slab this afternoon. I caught the needle dropping from a couple notches over 160 after I chopped the throttle. It was still pulling strong when I backed off.
After safe arrival at the hideout, I yanked the seat and pulled the ecu out from the strap looking for evidence of tampering (flash sticker).
2012 bought used this April with under 10k miles. I don't feel it runs like its been flashed. Wont come close to power wheelie without clutch in any gear. No sticker, appears bone stock aside from battery tender connector and tires.
I understand indicated speed doesn't mean actual speed, but I was well over 155 (limiter is set at 154 on gen2, no?) as far as the bike was concerned. What gives?
oh, found the rev limiter this morning :-* This thing is FUN. Need to sell a few unused items so I can send the brain on a Florida vacation at concours boot camp for a proper attitude adjustment. Hopefully can sneak that by the financial advisor this winter.

I'm not sure that I understand. Did the previous owner tell you that the bike had been flashed? Is that why you were surprised by the speed limiter at 154 (that would be actual speed, not speedo indicated)?

No such limiter on the superior gen one C14.    8) 
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Offline Jethrobolas

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2019, 09:05:29 am »
I'm not sure that I understand. Did the previous owner tell you that the bike had been flashed? Is that why you were surprised by the speed limiter at 154 (that would be actual speed, not speedo indicated)?

No such limiter on the superior gen one C14.    8)

No, I was never told it was flashed. I don’t believe it is.
I’m not understanding why it seems my stock gen2 has no limiter. Further “testing” is required to verify results and a gps speedometer app with top speed memory should clear things up, but i am certain I was around at least 165 indicated and still accelerating before I started coming up on civilization and closed the throttle. If it has been flashed, I’m not happy and will be sending it to Steve at some point.

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2019, 01:18:03 pm »
C, you ain't alone.  I'm not sure I'm understanding the question either.  So the OP isn't happy about 165mph indicated?  Sounds like to me it's running fine.  What's the issue?
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Offline maxtog

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2019, 03:25:43 pm »
If the tire sizes are not correct, it could be that (taller tires), combined with regular variance, would have the "indicated" speed far off from the actual speed.  It gets quite amplified as speed gets up there.

Does the bike really limit SPEED or just RPM?  I thought it just had a rev limiter.  If it limits only RPM, then top speed would be rev limiter x gearing x tires.  So indicated speed could be more than what one would expect.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Jethrobolas

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2019, 06:30:18 pm »
C, you ain't alone.  I'm not sure I'm understanding the question either.  So the OP isn't happy about 165mph indicated?  Sounds like to me it's running fine.  What's the issue?

I’m happy but confused because the bike is not supposed to go that fast in stock form.
The whole reason I keep typing “indicated” is because that’s what the speedo was reading which, in theory, is what the bikes computer thinks my velocity is. Theres no gps built into the bike that I’m aware of, so when the speedo reads 154 it should go no faster being limited to that speed by the factory programming(regardless of actual speed). Why was it still pulling into the 160s?
As I said, more testing is needed to verify the apparent anomaly. Whenever the opportunity arises again.
No need to think too deeply about it. Obviously this must be the first report of this happening. Maybe I’m just loosing my marbles. I will return to this thread either yay or nay when I try again.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 07:28:32 pm by Jethrobolas »

Offline The Pope

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2019, 04:07:47 am »
To my knowledge, there isn't a "speed" limiter, only a "Rev" limiter within the ECU.

There have been several GPS documented 165 MPH runs (in 5th gear as there's too much wind resistance to go this fast in 6th). The main reason that the C14 "normally" tops out in the 160's is mostly due to the Aerodynamics & Wind Resistance. Oh and the size of the riders balls.......

So Jethrobolas.... How was your bike configured when you made this run? With or Without the hard bags? Do you have the "stock" windscreen or aftermarket? I'd presume that you had the windscreen at it's lowest setting and you were in a "tucked" position, but again, that is just a presumption.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2019, 05:00:19 am »
My Gen1 clocked at 185 by friendly police radar, controlled setting.  Not by me.  Balls too small.  It had one of Steve's flashes.  Don't remember which one now.  The C14 is one amazing, little known amazing machine.
"LOCTITE®"  The original thread locker...  #11  08-C14 EA FC ABS 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology (sold).  U.N.I.T is Back!  2016 Indian Roadmaster.

Offline Jethrobolas

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2019, 09:04:22 am »
To my knowledge, there isn't a "speed" limiter, only a "Rev" limiter within the ECU.

There have been several GPS documented 165 MPH runs (in 5th gear as there's too much wind resistance to go this fast in 6th). The main reason that the C14 "normally" tops out in the 160's is mostly due to the Aerodynamics & Wind Resistance. Oh and the size of the riders balls.......

So Jethrobolas.... How was your bike configured when you made this run? With or Without the hard bags? Do you have the "stock" windscreen or aftermarket? I'd presume that you had the windscreen at it's lowest setting and you were in a "tucked" position, but again, that is just a presumption.

Side cases on, no top case, stock screen full down and I didn’t weasel under the paint but I got tucked in a bit to get my helmet/shoulders  out of the wind.

Rode it to work again but have my top case mounted because I need the storage today so I don’t want to push it too much. Sure makes the 160 mile round trip more tolerable. Long commute because I dislike Chicago but need the money it contains.  Fantastic machine, no doubt. If I could just get the wifey comfortable on it...........and her discomfort has nothing to do with the way I ride...usually.

Offline fartymarty

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2019, 09:57:38 am »
I have no references to quote, but somewhere on the internet was read by my cousin's ex-girlfriend's brother-in-law's acquaintance's friend ( ::) ), and it said that the GEN I C14's were limited to 300 kph (186.411 mph) and that Gen II's were limited to 250 kph (155.3 mph) from the factory.

Somebody check that out for us will you?..... I'm just too busy right now.  8) :popcorn:

Offline Jethrobolas

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2019, 10:56:33 am »
I have no references to quote, but somewhere on the internet was read by my cousin's ex-girlfriend's brother-in-law's acquaintance's friend ( ::) ), and it said that the GEN I C14's were limited to 300 kph (186.411 mph) and that Gen II's were limited to 250 kph (155.3 mph) from the factory.

Somebody check that out for us will you?..... I'm just too busy right now.  8) :popcorn:
I have read the same thing, and that is the reason I started this thread. Honestly, I thought it was a well known fact.
Why would kaw limit the speed? Are you less dead in a crash doing 155 than 185? With machines available that can easily walk right by the Connie, whats the point of limiting top speed.

Offline PH14

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2019, 11:53:34 am »
I’m happy but confused because the bike is not supposed to go that fast in stock form.
The whole reason I keep typing “indicated” is because that’s what the speedo was reading which, in theory, is what the bikes computer thinks my velocity is. Theres no gps built into the bike that I’m aware of, so when the speedo reads 154 it should go no faster being limited to that speed by the factory programming(regardless of actual speed). Why was it still pulling into the 160s?
As I said, more testing is needed to verify the apparent anomaly. Whenever the opportunity arises again.
No need to think too deeply about it. Obviously this must be the first report of this happening. Maybe I’m just loosing my marbles. I will return to this thread either yay or nay when I try again.

A number of my motorcycles over the years have had a speedo error of around 12%, that would make your actual speed about 145, at an indicated 165, well under the limit. My RC51 had an error of 8%, so an indicated 165 would be 151.8, also under the limit.  An 8% error is not uncommon.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2019, 01:50:47 pm »
I found this. Not sure why the C-14 is 155, other than the fairing would make it less stable above that speed.
Or the agreement changes from 186 to 155 for certain class of motorcycles.

Best Answer:  The OEM Japanese manufacturers decided to limit the speed of any bike that could approach 200 mph to 186 mph.This was done in 2001.Mainly the reason was to keep the goverment from stepping in and setting horsepower limits.In 1980,in the USA,we had senators screaming about "Killer Superbikes" and wanting to set HP limits then. Luckly, it did not happen. This Agreement was widely reported on in 2001 by all the M/C magazines.

Ride safe, Ted