Author Topic: speed limiter question  (Read 1099 times)

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2019, 04:12:18 pm »
Yep, perception and the belief that manufacturers are encouraging people to do dangerous things, such as ride at very excessive speeds, on their products. Which is exactly why we have 1) the fastest production motorcycle and 2) the quickest production motorcycle. And that helps sell bikes but it also alerts some other people, notably politicians, that we must 'do something' about this horrible problem, whether it is either horrible or even a problem or not. This is not new either, the big four American car manufacturers signed into an anti- racing plan back in the 1950's when cars started to produce a lot of horsepower and go considerably faster (1957 if memory serves).

Perception trumps reality every single time: red sports bikes doing 80 MPH are far more of a danger, and actually going much faster than an old- man's fat sport- tourer doing 80 MPH, especially if ridden by an old man. Sounds silly but it works the vast majority of the time.

And once is a while someone really does 'do something' about this pressing problem- the French limit motorcycle hp to 100 so bikes such as the C-14 (or GTR1400) have air restrictors put into their intakes, as well as any other motorcycles sold and used in France. Now a realistic look at motorcycle fatalities will show that there is absolutely no need to have more than 100 hp to slaughter people by the dozens of thousands but hey, as long as they 'did something', that is what counts, right?

On a more sane level, Germany was tired of picking up German carcasses and their motorcycle wrecks and instituted a new law; a new motorcycle license holder was limited to 600 cc max. for the first two years after receiving his / her motorcycle license. Then that person could ride anything. And BTW, the person did not have to actually ride <any> motorcycle for the first two years, simply let the two year time- out run out and viola! This actually had a positive effect on reducing motorcycle deaths in Germany, or so I have been told by several German nationals.

Brian

I found this. Not sure why the C-14 is 155, other than the fairing would make it less stable above that speed.
Or the agreement changes from 186 to 155 for certain class of motorcycles.

Best Answer:  The OEM Japanese manufacturers decided to limit the speed of any bike that could approach 200 mph to 186 mph.This was done in 2001.Mainly the reason was to keep the goverment from stepping in and setting horsepower limits.In 1980,in the USA,we had senators screaming about "Killer Superbikes" and wanting to set HP limits then. Luckly, it did not happen. This Agreement was widely reported on in 2001 by all the M/C magazines.

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Offline kzz1king

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2019, 04:22:30 pm »
 At 75 indicated with the 50 series I am doing 70-71. With the 55 series 75 it is 72. I have never checked it at 150 but have had occasion . Cant imagine what the penalty for that is.
Wayne


A number of my motorcycles over the years have had a speedo error of around 12%, that would make your actual speed about 145, at an indicated 165, well under the limit. My RC51 had an error of 8%, so an indicated 165 would be 151.8, also under the limit.  An 8% error is not uncommon.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2019, 04:32:17 pm »
Yep, perception and the belief [...] we must 'do something' about this horrible problem, whether it is either horrible or even a problem or not. [...] Perception trumps reality every single time

Sounds exactly like the vast majority of "gun control".  I believe that most people operate only on emotion, not logic or fact.  (And these "woke", "emotional" and "empathetic" people are also really good at spending other people's money and taking away other people's rights, choices, and freedoms).

Of course, there is a weak relation between a motorcycle's top speed and/or power and the likelihood of a fatal accident on those.  But that is more likely because of who is attracted to that model.  Such a person is likely to be irresponsible and dangerous at 150 or 125 or 100, or 60 MPH.   Power and speed are only a small, small fraction of overall risk.... If I had a dollar for every slow HD rider I see who is dressed completely inappropriately, changing lanes without using signals, barely visible brake lights, weaving, severely distracted, tailgating, and doing all kinds of stupid stuff, I would have a lot of money.
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Offline Jgiacobbe

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2019, 04:43:37 pm »
The speedo and the ecu get signal from the same sensor for speed but each interprets the signal independently. My bike as an ex police moto happened to come to me with the speed sensor wire disconnected from the ECU but still connected to the speedo. It resulted in an error code. I'm willing to bet the ECU interprets the speed from that signal much less optimistically than the speedo.

Offline Conrad

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2019, 07:11:35 am »
I’m happy but confused because the bike is not supposed to go that fast in stock form.
The whole reason I keep typing “indicated” is because that’s what the speedo was reading which, in theory, is what the bikes computer thinks my velocity is. Theres no gps built into the bike that I’m aware of, so when the speedo reads 154 it should go no faster being limited to that speed by the factory programming(regardless of actual speed). Why was it still pulling into the 160s?
As I said, more testing is needed to verify the apparent anomaly. Whenever the opportunity arises again.
No need to think too deeply about it. Obviously this must be the first report of this happening. Maybe I’m just loosing my marbles. I will return to this thread either yay or nay when I try again.

I'm positive that Kawasaki is fully aware that the speedo doesn't show the actual speed. Further, I'm sure that if they wanted to limit the speed to 154 (and they have) as indicated by GPS then they would have no problems doing so regardless of what the speedo reads.

My understanding is that the speedo reads ~5% high. Add 5% to your 155 and you have ~163, exactly what you observed according to your first post.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2019, 12:22:57 pm »
OFFTOPIC: yeah, it is like gun control (and not the good kind where one has a sharp eye and a steady hand). But I choose to avoid that subject. There are actually many things that fit in this general category, transportation comes immediately to mind. We slaughter more than 40K people per year in the US but aspect of all the attention and most of the time spent on travel safety? Air travel, one of, if not THE safest ways to travel known. But again it is the perception: an airliner crash and several hundred dead is a tragedy that commands a huge amount of time and attention but because cars kill people by the ones and twos, it is not a big deal. But add up all the deaths in the world from airline accidents and compare that to all the auto deaths and I think most people would be amazed at where the real problem is.

It has been said that the odds of a bucked downing are higher than dying in a mass shooting in the US but I do not have the data to back that up. Of course, I cannot find publised data as to the deaths per 100,000 of the population that mass shootings have caused because that is not information that would support those who are trying so desperately to make this out to be some kind of national epidemic. It IS bad and understandable of course, it just is not statistically significant.

How does it go? There are lies, damn lies and statistics. Just like the old saying: 'Let's not clutter up this issue with a lot of pertinent facts'.

Brian

Sounds exactly like the vast majority of "gun control".  I believe that most people operate only on emotion, not logic or fact.  (And these "woke", "emotional" and "empathetic" people are also really good at spending other people's money and taking away other people's rights, choices, and freedoms).

Of course, there is a weak relation between a motorcycle's top speed and/or power and the likelihood of a fatal accident on those.  But that is more likely because of who is attracted to that model.  Such a person is likely to be irresponsible and dangerous at 150 or 125 or 100, or 60 MPH.   Power and speed are only a small, small fraction of overall risk.... If I had a dollar for every slow HD rider I see who is dressed completely inappropriately, changing lanes without using signals, barely visible brake lights, weaving, severely distracted, tailgating, and doing all kinds of stupid stuff, I would have a lot of money.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Jethrobolas

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2019, 07:08:20 pm »
I'm positive that Kawasaki is fully aware that the speedo doesn't show the actual speed. Further, I'm sure that if they wanted to limit the speed to 154 (and they have) as indicated by GPS then they would have no problems doing so regardless of what the speedo reads.

My understanding is that the speedo reads ~5% high. Add 5% to your 155 and you have ~163, exactly what you observed according to your first post.
This is makes the most sense to me. Not sure when I can give it a go again. First 5k miles on it since purchasing it behind me, time for an oil change. Barely have any time on it bag-less though. I’ll be on some deserted slab or a ribbon of asphalt between bean fields sooner or later. Phone sits on the bars now so no excuse to neglect to open my gps speedo app.
Busy as can be right now between work and home projects so not much playtime🛠 thank you for all the replies!

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2019, 04:57:33 am »
Ixnay on the gun control discussion.  There's other boards for that.
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Offline Jethrobolas

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2019, 05:35:05 pm »
Ok at 70 gps, speedo reads 75. Couple tanker trucks forced me to abort mission. Creeping up on the
4-5 shift when the experiment ended.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2019, 06:05:20 pm »
Never had the ballz to try taking pictures on high end runs, but when my '08 was like a month old, and well broken in, fully loaded side bags, and trunk, my Garmin was indicating 158 while  my speedometer was buzzzing around 164..  a couple times... before I ran out of "safe road" (i.e. no LEO hidy spots) in Va.
Since then, I have seen 170 indicated, and GPS read around 163.... a couple times. I'm gonna have to "dump" my saved top end readings from my Garmin, and re-try the thing again, now tthat I have my Mountain Runner Premium flash...

The speeds I noted were in 5th, at shift point to 6th, and when upshifted I did have a bit of 'upper room" to attempt to see "top end... "

(all were just below the 9k rpm threshold, in 5th.)

I love my "old" 1400... the first year models were the ones that would surprise people.

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Offline khager01

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2019, 01:16:13 pm »
Just my opinion but I am not sure the C14 even has a speed limiter or ever did.  No way that even an older model is going to do a true 186 mph in stock form.  This was the discussion in another forum on Facebook.  The only persons that would know for sure would be Steve or Ivan or anybody else that has seen the inner workings of the software in the ECU.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2019, 03:52:25 pm »
Just my opinion but I am not sure the C14 even has a speed limiter or ever did.  No way that even an older model is going to do a true 186 mph in stock form.  This was the discussion in another forum on Facebook.  The only persons that would know for sure would be Steve or Ivan or anybody else that has seen the inner workings of the software in the ECU.

do yourself a favor... back away from those 2 facebook pages.
Nothing good will come from them, whatsover.
I don't know Ivan... I do Know Steve... and I do have contact with the owner of the bike, that has been "under scrutiny" by the "minions".  Lets just say, if you ain't stupid, you can easily read between the lines of reality.  I don't think you are stupid,  :thumbs: :thumbs: :hail: :chugbeer:

I was present at the "intro talk" at the '07 national rally, where "every tidbit" was discussed,(where they also said they wouldn't do linked brakes... or traction control.. because it would "detract" from the owner experience...heheheheh) I only had my bike for a couple weeks prior, and was one of 2 people that actually owned first editions, and were present.
The bike, as produced, never had a "speed limiter" tied to the speed sensor, only a "rev limiter", as a protective device. later in time, I can't say for certain, but I believe they "went in" and messed with stuff, but in reality i don't believe it was tied directly to "speed sensed".. I'll leave that up to Steve to address..
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 04:30:02 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline maxtog

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2019, 05:09:32 pm »
The bike, as produced, never had a "speed limiter" tied to the speed sensor, only a "rev limiter", as a protective device.

Yep, that is what I posted weeks ago.  I don't think it also has a "speed limiter" but only a "rev limiter" which just equates to a certain speed based on rpm x tire size x gear x final drive.  Would love to know for sure if this is wrong.
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Offline kzz1king

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2019, 10:24:52 am »
Both of the flashs (Steves and Ivans) mention removal of speed limiters and also talk of rpm limiters. So from my reading of their literature I will go on the premise that it is speed limited in stock form.
Wayne
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Offline PH14

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Re: speed limiter question
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2019, 11:11:36 am »
The 2008 and 2009 models do not have a speed limiter, but the later models do. I have the 2009, that and the fact it is red, makes it the fastest C14.  :chugbeer: