Author Topic: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?  (Read 1538 times)

Offline YHSublime

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« on: August 26, 2019, 12:31:33 pm »
Hey Folks,

I've got a 2013 kawi concours that had the wireless key fall out while I was riding. Happened about 9 months ago and I have just been overwhelmed about it and it's been sitting around. You can read about that here: http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23724.0 but to touch on what's been covered:
- I have no keys for this motorcycle, other than the stovepipe key, which I can't activate.
- Nobody knows about the credit card emergency key, the passive key is you will. Dealership has no clue, PO has no clue. (In thinking about places it might actually be even though nobody knows about it, there's a snowballs chance in hell its in the tool bag under the seat, but I can't get the seat off.)
- It's wheel locked

Well, we're getting repaving done at my place and I have to move the bike tonight, called up my local Kawasaki dealer and they told me that in parts alone this was going to cost $2,400. That's before the pressure system for the tires which they're quoting me at starting at $3,300.

Has anybody had to do this before, I'm having a hard time finding costs associated,

At this stage it would be easier for me to declare the bike totaled.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 01:02:26 pm by YHSublime »

Offline Rubber_Snake

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
  • Country: us
  • 2009 GTR1400 ABS, Black
Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2019, 01:23:39 pm »
Man!  How long has your bike been sitting in the street???  I’m thinking you might be better off finding a wrecked/parting out 2010-2014, take the fob/ecu/TPS from that bike and doing a swap.  I think it would be much cheaper.  Best of luck.
2009 GTR 1400 ABS, 48k miles, AMSOIL synthetic 10W-40 (since new), AMSOIL synthetic 75W-90 final drive (since new). Helibar Horizons, Symtec heat demon grips, V-Stream windscreen, Mountain Runner Flash, Brian’s low fuel eliminator farkle, ST2 smart brake module and smart turn system, Two Brothers Black Series M5 w/P1X decibel killer.

Offline YHSublime

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2019, 02:24:18 pm »
The answer is too long. I'm not spending more than I paid for the bike, it's in immaculate condition sans this entire key thing. I just can't believe this is the end.

Pro move, I swapped out my gas tank lid with the key with an aftermarket so I didn't have to worry about about taking my key out all the time. I've taken the lid and lock to a local locksmith who will make a key for me so I can get into my seat at least, and then lets throw out some good vibes that the passive responded is in the tool kit bag or under the seat by some Christmas miracle.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2709
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2019, 02:53:22 pm »
Earlier, when you first asked about this, I tried to explain a bit;

But, just today this same issue popped up on the COG forum...

this is the solution I have, pretty much the only one... go price the "kit's", and see if you want to put the money out... sounds like the dealership you are questioning is wayy out of line on his pricing, and simply doesn't want to deal with it...

I know for certain, if I had the KDS, I could accomplish all of the changes in less than 1 hour.. even while taking a smoke break... and at general shop rate time of $140-$180 max.. (ridiculous price) per hour...  It's a $1000 job... doubling and tripling the "parts costs" is abhorred...

Hey Folks,

I've got a 2013 kawi concours that had the wireless key fall out while I was riding. Happened about 9 months ago and I have just been overwhelmed about it and it's been sitting around. You can read about that here: http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23724.0 but to touch on what's been covered:
- I have no keys for this motorcycle, other than the stovepipe key, which I can't activate.
- .....
Well, we're getting repaving done at my place and I have to move the bike tonight, called up my local Kawasaki dealer and they told me that in parts alone this was going to cost $2,400. That's before the pressure system for the tires which they're quoting me at starting at $3,300.

Has anybody had to do this before, I'm having a hard time finding costs associated,

At this stage it would be easier for me to declare the bike totaled.

THIS is the only way to get back into action....  the kit runs $875 approx...
mind you, you will need a physical "key" that fits the ignition.. or you will need a complete ignition module also... with a key.

you have a stovekey in ignition, you are fine with that.. during programming, it will be used and paired when the ECU and FOBs are layed on the bike, and system programming takes place... as for wheel sensors..? if they ain't bad, they get programmed as is.. during the process.. you don't need new ones unless they are dead...
   21176-0748   SENSOR,TPMS 315MHZ   2 req'd....   (approx $213 each.. )

2008-'09
2 matched active fobs, matched to ECU, and ECU..kit
21175-0183   CONTROL UNIT-ELECTRONIC

2010-thru '14
1 active FOB, and ECU, matched kit
21175-0299   CONTROL UNIT-ELECTRONIC

2015 up
1 active FOB, paired to ECU, matched kit
21175-0730   CONTROL UNIT-ELECTRONIC

extras, after buying the above, will give you "spares"
passive credit card immobilizer/fobs, for programming,
21175-0256   SPARE FOB KEY blank may need to be purchased..


It realllly makes me furious, to read of dealerships that do things like you have been dealt.. even with "part markup", the price of parts, and time/labor would never get over $1500, for everything, Kit, labor, etc... and the tech won't even have to wash his hands afterwards..
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 03:40:18 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline YHSublime

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2019, 10:13:02 am »
Earlier, when you first asked about this, I tried to explain a bit;

But, just today this same issue popped up on the COG forum...

this is the solution I have, pretty much the only one... go price the "kit's", and see if you want to put the money out... sounds like the dealership you are questioning is wayy out of line on his pricing, and simply doesn't want to deal with it...

Thanks for this, it's super helpful. And this time around I understand what you're saying. Not that it's any better, but when you're staring down the barrel of $1000 vs almost $6000 it makes it hurt a little less. Obviously this monkey has been on my back for quite some time, I had the motorcycle moved to a small local shop last night. I'm in the process of getting a key for the seat made so I can at least see if the passive FOB is in the toolkit.

Believe it or not, most people I spoke to at a couple of dealerships were not even familiar with the issue. I think you're right, they just didn't want to deal with it. I was price shopping because I was going to have it towed to one of them, until I started getting those digits.

I'm going to order a kit this week. The motorcycle itself is still under a note, which means I'm also still paying full insurance on it.

I know for certain, if I had the KDS, I could accomplish all of the changes in less than 1 hour.. even while taking a smoke break... and at general shop rate time of $140-$180 max.. (ridiculous price) per hour...  It's a $1000 job... doubling and tripling the "parts costs" is abhorred...
THIS is the only way to get back into action....  the kit runs $875 approx...
mind you, you will need a physical "key" that fits the ignition.. or you will need a complete ignition module also... with a key.

you have a stovekey in ignition, you are fine with that.. during programming, it will be used and paired when the ECU and FOBs are layed on the bike, and system programming takes place... as for wheel sensors..? if they ain't bad, they get programmed as is.. during the process.. you don't need new ones unless they are dead...
   21176-0748   SENSOR,TPMS 315MHZ   2 req'd....   (approx $213 each.. )

2008-'09
2 matched active fobs, matched to ECU, and ECU..kit
21175-0183   CONTROL UNIT-ELECTRONIC

2010-thru '14
1 active FOB, and ECU, matched kit
21175-0299   CONTROL UNIT-ELECTRONIC

2015 up
1 active FOB, paired to ECU, matched kit
21175-0730   CONTROL UNIT-ELECTRONIC

extras, after buying the above, will give you "spares"
passive credit card immobilizer/fobs, for programming,
21175-0256   SPARE FOB KEY blank may need to be purchased..

I'm going to show this to the guy who helped me tow the bike, and who's shop it's at. I'm confident that he has the skillset to make this happen. Heck, I probably could work it out as well, I just don't have the time, space, or tools. Not yet at least. The wheel sensors are fine, the dealership didn't even see the bike, they just threw all that pricing out on a plate with a big middle finger.

It realllly makes me furious, to read of dealerships that do things like you have been dealt.. even with "part markup", the price of parts, and time/labor would never get over $1500, for everything, Kit, labor, etc... and the tech won't even have to wash his hands afterwards..

It get's me fired up as well. One of them is a reputable dealership with tons of five star reviews and a website that claims honesty, fairness, and best prices, all as core values.


Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2709
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2019, 02:20:20 pm »
Again, I'll remind you, no matter what you will still need someone with the KDS3 Kawasaki software, and interface setup, in order to properly install the parts and have them done in the correct order, and properly programmed to the bike...

so, don't attempt installing or removing stuff until you have someone that can do the programming...

I'll also note, this bike has sat for a long time; when the programming and replacement process is going to be done the bike MUST have a reliable and fully charged battery... one that is not in question, preferably a new battery, installed and all of the terminations and cable ends, including the grounding point on the frame, must be abrasively cleaned and insuring fresh good connections...
an older battery that gives only 12v, or less than 14v fully charged, will not survive the programming time, nor provide the needs.

glad to be of assistance with the info for you.
best of luck getting it on the road.

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline jwh20

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 325
Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2019, 03:42:08 am »
It seems to me that the dealer's quote for parts to revive this bike is out of bounds.  Kawasaki lists a part number for a new KiPass ECU and a FOB, PN 21175-0730, which at https://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/kaw/50a99d8ef87002235ccd8081/ignition-switch-locks-reflectors, is $871.  (See callout 21175B.)  Indeed you do need a KDS3 to complete this but even assuming 2 hours of labor for the install of the ECU and programming with the KDS3 (say $120/hour) that's another $240.  So you should be able to get out of this for $1000 more or less.

Did the dealer itemize the $2400 quote?  By the way, I'd ignore the TPMS issue at this point.  That's the least of your problems.  I'll also STRONGLY recommend that you purchase at least one additional "credit card" Key Immobilizer FOB as well (PN 21175-0256, SPARE FOB KEY - $45/each) and have them programmed to your bike at the same time.  It takes only a few additional minutes with the KDS3 to do this and will help prevent a repeat of this unfortunate scenario in the future.

Where are you located?  There are several frequenters of this board who have a KDS unit, myself included, so perhaps someone near you could help out.  One issue you do have is that the seat will need to be removed to gain access, and since you have no "hard" key either, the lock will need to be picked or the seat otherwise removed.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2709
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2019, 07:07:05 pm »
I kinda mentioned that above.

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline YHSublime

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2019, 01:16:33 pm »
Again, I'll remind you, no matter what you will still need someone with the KDS3 Kawasaki software, and interface setup, in order to properly install the parts and have them done in the correct order, and properly programmed to the bike...

so, don't attempt installing or removing stuff until you have someone that can do the programming...

Got it, so my guy probably can not do that. Grumble Grumble.

I'll also note, this bike has sat for a long time; when the programming and replacement process is going to be done the bike MUST have a reliable and fully charged battery... one that is not in question, preferably a new battery, installed and all of the terminations and cable ends, including the grounding point on the frame, must be abrasively cleaned and insuring fresh good connections...

an older battery that gives only 12v, or less than 14v fully charged, will not survive the programming time, nor provide the needs.

Also super helpful, thanks for the additional details.

It seems to me that the dealer's quote for parts to revive this bike is out of bounds.  Kawasaki lists a part number for a new KiPass ECU and a FOB, PN 21175-0730, which at https://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/kaw/50a99d8ef87002235ccd8081/ignition-switch-locks-reflectors, is $871.  (See callout 21175B.)  Indeed you do need a KDS3 to complete this but even assuming 2 hours of labor for the install of the ECU and programming with the KDS3 (say $120/hour) that's another $240.  So you should be able to get out of this for $1000 more or less.

Seems to be what I'm hearing, and that number sounds a lot better. Finding a KDS3 seems to be the biggest hurdle. I might just have to go down to the dealership with the parts in hand and explain exactly what I need. I bet they'll love that.

Did the dealer itemize the $2400 quote?  By the way, I'd ignore the TPMS issue at this point.  That's the least of your problems.  I'll also STRONGLY recommend that you purchase at least one additional "credit card" Key Immobilizer FOB as well (PN 21175-0256, SPARE FOB KEY - $45/each) and have them programmed to your bike at the same time.  It takes only a few additional minutes with the KDS3 to do this and will help prevent a repeat of this unfortunate scenario in the future.

They did not, they had to go and "research" for most of the morning to even figure out exactly how to tackle the issue. You better believe I'm getting keys for days for this thing. The hindsight thing is 20/20 as the saying goes, when I bought the bike used I had no idea about all these things I'm learning the hard way.

Where are you located?  There are several frequenters of this board who have a KDS unit, myself included, so perhaps someone near you could help out.  One issue you do have is that the seat will need to be removed to gain access, and since you have no "hard" key either, the lock will need to be picked or the seat otherwise removed.

I'm living in Arlington, Virginia right now. I'm 10 minutes from Washington, DC, and a hop skip and a jump from most places in MD as well.

Good news is the seat has been removed, bad news, no Passive FOB.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2709
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2019, 03:02:04 pm »
BUMMER...
I moved from Hanover Va., back to Ohio in '11 and I probably could have helped you out a bit if I was still there, I know there is a COG member near you that does actually have a KDS, just have to roust him up, and see which version he has... gimme a while, I'll be back.. and put you in touch with him.. has to be 100x better than trying to deal with a dealership that has no clues... Only dealer I ever trusted is in Richmond, Ultimate Cycle... they are good folks..
I think I know someone in Md. that also has a KDS...

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline YHSublime

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2019, 05:44:09 pm »
BUMMER...
I moved from Hanover Va., back to Ohio in '11 and I probably could have helped you out a bit if I was still there, I know there is a COG member near you that does actually have a KDS, just have to roust him up, and see which version he has... gimme a while, I'll be back.. and put you in touch with him.. has to be 100x better than trying to deal with a dealership that has no clues... Only dealer I ever trusted is in Richmond, Ultimate Cycle... they are good folks..
I think I know someone in Md. that also has a KDS...

Its still busy out here. And expensive. The cost of living is high.

I'll take any calvary you can find. The motorcycle is currently in MD, the guy who towed it is going to see what his buds at the dealership come back with as well.

I'm excited at the prospect of being on the saddle again!

Offline chile62

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Country: us
Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2019, 01:48:08 pm »
I just went thru this.  https://www.carmousa.com was the solution.  You will need to send them your ignition switch with the black box that is attached to it, plus $380.00, and  you'll get 2 keys, nothing else is needed to make your bike run.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2709
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2019, 04:27:30 pm »
I just went thru this.  https://www.carmousa.com was the solution.  You will need to send them your ignition switch with the black box that is attached to it, plus $380.00, and  you'll get 2 keys, nothing else is needed to make your bike run.

OK
I've been dealing with Kipass issues for people since 2007.

please explain, exactly what you mean by
"You will need to send them your ignition switch with the black box that is attached to it, plus $380.00"

And also tell us all, exactly how this worked out...

I need some confirmation that you actually did this... I'm not believing it at all. Sorry, but I am skeptical about it in every way.


30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline chile62

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Country: us
Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2019, 06:30:44 pm »
Man of blues, You sir, have a right to believe and or think whatever you wish.  i, on the other hand, dont have to prove anything to you.

YHSublime, you and I lost our FOBs around the same time (looking at my original thread about my lost FOB http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23715.0  ). call or text Kevin at Carmousa it will take about 3 weeks and you will be riding again.

Online maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8110
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2019, 08:17:03 pm »
YHSublime, you and I lost our FOBs around the same time (looking at my original thread about my lost FOB http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23715.0  ). call or text Kevin at Carmousa it will take about 3 weeks and you will be riding again.


Interesting, to say the least.

https://www.carmousa.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4105

They even sell active fobs for $21????  (Says "0 in stock", however).

I wonder why it takes so long, though.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc