Author Topic: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?  (Read 1545 times)

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2019, 04:40:42 pm »
First may I suggest, Ed, that you NOT apologize for your English skills; they seem to be excellent, and certainly adequate so that any English speaker can understand you. Hey, better than some native English speakers!

What you are explaining about the work- around for your C-14 is not really addressing KiPass but instead the RFID portion of the system located in the ignition switch housing. What they provided is not the main way KiPass is supposed to work but instead the back- up system for KiPass. Now that is fine, and well and good if you are satisfied but it is not the way KiPass was intended to operate. That said, if they can allow the back-up portion to operate, then it should be possible to use the KDS software (dealers have that) to code the system to use a new RF fob from Kawasaki. Those are somewhere around $300, with labor to code the bike to recognize them at something like $50 to $100. Once you have a working RF fob, you can just leave it in your pocket and when you press down on the main stove knob key, the system will activate (if it senses a legitimate fob within range).

Again, if you are happy with what you have then all is well and that is great.

My only other thought would be you might want to put something over the ignition switch key opening because that was not intended to be left open all the time- the original "stove knob" key (called that because it looks like a control knob from a kitchen stove) has a large diameter cone that covers the ignition switch and protects it from the elements.

This also explains the $21.XX cost for a 'fob' because it is not the RF fob pictured but instead either a chipped key or a 'credit card' fob that will not work unless held against the ignition switch housing. So for those who have lost all fobs, this may be a workable solution but not a complete system as came with the bike originally; that will cost another ~$400 or so for an RF fob and coding the bike to recognize it, which will bring the price up to more than $800.

I am not knocking this service, merely pointing out that it is not the same as getting a new ECU and two new RF fobs. To get to that point would be close to the same cost as buying original equipment and installing it on the bike.

Thanks for your detailed explanation of this service, and thanks for pointing it out in the first place- I am sure many of us, including myself, did not know this service was even available.

Brian

Here's my experience.  (English is my second language, grammar, punctuation.are some of my weaknesses)

Some time in August of 2018 my keyfob (the only thing i had to start my Connie) fell off my desk and into the trash can next to it.
Started looking for used ECM/ECUs with a matching keyfob, in the process i found out that my 2012 requires a 2010 thru 2014 ecm (other years may not work correctly)
Searching around the web, i found Carmo.nl i contacted them and asked a bunch of questions, and they answered them all, very patiently. (I was thinking that it was too good to be true)
I had/have some health issues, had to put this aside for a while.
After a couple of months, i found CarmoUSA and contacted Kevin thru e-mail.  He sent me a picture of the computer that i needed to send them, and to my surprise it wasnt the main ECU but instead it was the black box that is attached to the ignition switch under the handle bars (stove key?).
After i drilled the key switch away from the top brace, i threw the switch and the black box attached to it into a box and along a few papers proving that it is my bike sent them to CarmoUSA.
About 2 weeks later i received an invoice for around 360 to 380 (they charged me about $40,00 to send it all back to me)
About a week after that, i had my switch and its computer back  put it on the bike and it cranked and ran right away.
Because i did not know that there are 2 different keys to the Connies, ( A key and B key) i did not specify to CarmoUSA which key i had they sent me the wrong key. ( if you do not know the differerence between the A and B keys, please research this,  "A" keys will not fit "B" switches and "B" keys will not fit "A" switches.
I took one of the keys that CarmoUSA sent back and cut off the metal part of the key and kept the plastic piece (with the transponder or key chip) and  epoxied it to the front side of the switch right under the plastic bezel.
To start my bike, i just put a key in the switch, push it in all the way, wait a second, when the key picture comes up on the screen i turn my key to the left, or center position, and start the engine. to turn it off i turn the key to the right, pull the key out, put it in my pocket and walk away. (while admiring my wonderful Connie.

Sorry my English sucks.

Ed
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2019, 04:42:45 pm »
If I recall, with the Duc, if you lose the red master you're screwed.

well, as always, I have a hard time with some vendors that are versed in one bikes needs, and totally ignorant in different bikes.. If I want something for my Kawasaki, I expect the vendor to be versed enough in the "lingo" and present "systems" of my bike, to refer to each part intelligently, and call them by the correct factory names, and descriptions...

and when they don't... I simply won't do business with them..

Kinda like seeing the old famous "Muzzy License plate/fender eliminator" on their website... with the C14's bikes bags installed on the opposite sides / backwards, of where they should have been... and they kept that picture there for 4 years, just to sell "product"...
(then, they dissipated into ...oblivion...poof) ::) :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :nuts: :banana

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline maxtog

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Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2019, 05:03:36 pm »
What sent off "red flags" in my mind was the whole "red" and "black" key thing, the photo of the WAY underpriced active fob on their site, and the photo of what appeared to be the main ECU on the site.

I can believe what you end up with is a hacked system that has no active fob, or way to use one, and an open-to-the-elements ignition key switch.  But the inconsistencies in the photos, the description, and the long turnaround time would not make me comfortable.  Perhaps they were just lazy in their descriptions and such.  At worst, it will scare away people like me, who have enough knowledge of the system to be dangerous.  At best, the resulting "product" is being somewhat mis-represented.

Further, unless they are using a longer-range passive RFID reader, the range is not enough to reach to the "replacement" passive key when it sits in the ignition switch.  I know this, because I regularly use the factory/stock passive RFID fob combined with the original stovepipe ignition key when I am too lazy to go retrieve the active fob from my jacket.  The range is probably less than 1cm.  So how are you supposed to use it properly with their hacked setup?  Take one key and put it in the ignition, take a SECOND passive key and hold it to the front of the ignition and while doing that press in the first key so you can then turn it?  Every time?  Yuck.
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Offline chile62

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Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2019, 05:28:44 pm »

No, i do not have the OEM fob,  nor do i have a $7000.00 "brick" sitting in my garage.  As far as i know, (all the research i did) the red key can be "cloned" (i will try this at my local locksmith and i will report back as time allows.)

As far as the lock being exposed to the weather, it should not be much of an issue with routine maintenance.  None of the previous bikes that i have owned had a problem with  rain or hand washes.

Kipass is not a foolproof system,  someone that wants a Connie bad enough, will take it.  As I just proved, this bikes can be made to run just as the did from factory without the active/passive modules.

I tried to explain that i did not specify which key i had, unfortunately i was sent the wrong type key and it will not fit in my switch.  My solution to this problem was to break-off the metal part of the black key and attach it to the ignition switch/KIPASS computer. (i wanted to ride right away) i did not want to send everything back so they code the right type key for my bike.

I am aware of the fact that my "approach" does away with the extra security feature that KIPASS provides.  The bike is insured and watched by two Pitbulls and a well armed, and highly trained combat veteran that requires daily medication to remain somewhat calm. LOL :) ;)

Ed
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 06:13:44 pm by chile62 »

Offline chile62

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Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2019, 05:35:13 pm »
I almost forgot to ask this, but I still must;

Do you get "lost transponder" or "transponder battery" error codes on your dash now?

just asking.. I don't think you sent them the Kipass ECU, so I have to assume these errors will still be on dash.

The only message i have seen since i put it back together (about 500+ miles ago) is for the rear TPMS low battery, when its colder in the morning i get a message for both tires.  NO other codes/messages present

Offline Freddy

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Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2019, 06:00:48 pm »
In the hope of adding clarity to a couple of mis-statements:

1. Maxtog said: I can believe what you end up with is a hacked system that has no active fob, or way to use one.........   This is untrue, as BDF noted a little above it: if they can allow the back-up portion to operate, then it should be possible to use the KDS software (dealers have that) to code the system to use a new RF fob from Kawasaki.

If the ignition can be turned on then a new Kaw active fob can be registered to the KIPASS ECU.


2. In reply 28 MOB asked: Do you get "lost transponder" or "transponder battery" error codes on your dash now?  The answer will obviously be: no.  Maxtog alluded to this where he says: ....... because I regularly use the factory/stock passive RFID fob combined with the original stovepipe ignition key when I am too lazy to go retrieve the active fob from my jacket.

The reason Maztog and chile62 didn't get the "lost transponder" warning is not because he (Max) had the active fob in his pocket, but because KIPASS does not 'look' for the active fob if the bike has been started using a passive fob. 

Thanks for reporting your experience on all this Chile62 - good work.       :chugbeer: to all. 
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Offline chile62

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Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2019, 06:05:22 pm »
In the hope of adding clarity to a couple of mis-statements:

1. Maxtog said: I can believe what you end up with is a hacked system that has no active fob, or way to use one.........   This is untrue, as BDF noted a little above it: if they can allow the back-up portion to operate, then it should be possible to use the KDS software (dealers have that) to code the system to use a new RF fob from Kawasaki.

If the ignition can be turned on then a new Kaw active fob can be registered to the KIPASS ECU.


2. In reply 28 MOB asked: Do you get "lost transponder" or "transponder battery" error codes on your dash now?  The answer will obviously be: no.  Maxtog alluded to this where he says: ....... because I regularly use the factory/stock passive RFID fob combined with the original stovepipe ignition key when I am too lazy to go retrieve the active fob from my jacket.

The reason Maztog and chile62 didn't get the "lost transponder" warning is not because he (Max) had the active fob in his pocket, but because KIPASS does not 'look' for the active fob if the bike has been started using a passive fob. 

Thanks for reporting your experience on all this Chile62 - good work.       :chugbeer: to all.

Thank you for clarifying this.

Offline chile62

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Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2019, 06:07:56 pm »
Once again, here is the short video i made this afternoon (my first link didnt work).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcghuAh-w04&t=19s


Offline maxtog

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Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2019, 06:10:16 pm »
In the hope of adding clarity to a couple of mis-statements:  1. Maxtog said: I can believe what you end up with is a hacked system that has no active fob, or way to use one.........   This is untrue, as BDF noted a little above it: if they can allow the back-up portion to operate, then it should be possible to use the KDS software (dealers have that) to code the system to use a new RF fob from Kawasaki.

Well, that is a good clarification, and an option I completely forgot about.  Of course, that ability is not included in the service.  I bet the dealer charges mad $ for that (like they do for most everything).
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

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Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2019, 06:16:38 pm »
Once again, here is the short video i made this afternoon (my first link didnt work).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcghuAh-w04&t=19s

Nice video.  Plus, you correctly pronounce "Concours", something that seemingly half the people out there can't do :)   (Hint to those people, it doesn't sound like something in an airport).

I know I would not be happy with that outcome (essentially defeating KIPASS), but it is nice to have options, especially for those desperate to get it working on a budget.  We are likely to see much more of this in the future as the Concours 14 gets older and older and more used ones are being sold with only a single fob that then gets lost and the new owner has no idea just how dangerous it is to not have a spare fob.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Michelle

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Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2019, 06:58:36 pm »
If it is all as Chile62 says, it would be possible to restore the bike to normal KIPASS operation. One would need the active fob and a replacement ignition.

Once the bike is powered on you can code a new active fob with KDS - then turn off. Power it again using the active fob and code a replacement ignition switch, which would then enable you to code the passives to the ignition.

I don't know if that would work out cheaper than replacing the KIPASS module. I do know that an active fob in Australia costs $600.
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Offline Freddy

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Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2019, 07:06:01 pm »
Daisy:   If it is all as Chile62 says, it would be possible to restore the bike to normal KIPASS operation. One would need the active fob and a replacement ignition. - not so.  If the ignition can be turned on, as shown, replacement ignition switch is not required as KIPASS has already recognised it.  You must have missed something in the translation.   ;D

I will be getting a new active fob shortly for $A390 for reasons detailed on the other forum.   :banghead:
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Offline PH14

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Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2019, 08:24:23 pm »
Once again, here is the short video i made this afternoon (my first link didnt work).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcghuAh-w04&t=19s

Thanks for taking the time to post the follow ups, and the video. It is much appreciated. Glad you got your bike running again. That is the most important thing. It is good to see that you found a good workaround, and others may benefit from it as well.

Offline Michelle

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Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2019, 08:30:14 pm »
Daisy:   If it is all as Chile62 says, it would be possible to restore the bike to normal KIPASS operation. One would need the active fob and a replacement ignition. - not so.  If the ignition can be turned on, as shown, replacement ignition switch is not required as KIPASS has already recognised it.  You must have missed something in the translation.   ;D

I will be getting a new active fob shortly for $A390 for reasons detailed on the other forum.   :banghead:

What I got was that they have butchered the ignition to install a different chip. I could be wrong - its probably my turn.  :P

They would need to install an antenna loop to read the keyhead too ... no?
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Offline Rubber_Snake

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Re: Lost FOB, KIPASS replacement cost?
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2019, 08:56:04 pm »
What I got was that they have butchered the ignition to install a different chip. I could be wrong - its probably my turn.  :P

They would need to install an antenna loop to read the keyhead too ... no?

Sounds like they replaced the chip reader module of the ignition and synced it with two keys, a red and a black one.  And as Max mentioned, when you use the passive card, it has to be right next to that module, within a centimeter, in order for it to recognize it.  So, yeah, an antenna loop around the ignition might do the trick.

If I were in Chile’s situation, I would keep the stove key in the ignition, and just use either passive key to activate the Kipass instead of mounting a passive key to the ignition.  And program some spares...
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