Author Topic: Fatal KIPASS Failure? Serious problem and advice requested  (Read 601 times)

Offline tjhess74

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Country: 00
Fatal KIPASS Failure? Serious problem and advice requested
« on: September 25, 2019, 08:08:26 pm »
Super short background...

in 2010, I had my KIPASS ignition replaced due to the sticking spring issue. No problems since, fast forward to Friday, August 16th, 2019. I was 100 miles out of town for a training course for work, and had ridden my 08 there. I only rode it home on Fridays and back again on Sundays for multiple weeks. She sat in the parking lot during the week.

Problem...

On the 16th, I loaded her up for the trip home, hit the stove key, and nothing. I thought it was the stuck spring again, so I gave her some good whacks. Then I got the following error on the screen, "SUBKEY ID ERROR".

Absolutely no response from the bike, whatsoever. I took the battery to a parts store. Tested good. Replaced the battery in the fob. No change. Put a new master 30 amp fuse in, same.

Fortunately, a friend of mine had some free time and a truck, and he made the trip and brought her to the local dealer for me. The dealer has been working on it since August 20th. They have 'tried everything' and can't figure out what is wrong. They called in a Kaw rep, who came and did his diagnosis. He left scratching his head, as well. So far, they have not said anything about replacing the ECU or whatever controls all that crap, but I fear it's coming. They only part ordered was a new ignition spring, which I thought wasn't a separate part, but maybe for the Kaw rep it is???

Do any of the masterminds on here have any idea what is going on? It's literally good one day and fried the next? Keys have been reprogrammed and the parts have supposedly removed and tested good. The other FOB, which was 100 miles away at the time of failure, also give that error code. So I'm confident the FOB's aren't the culprits.

The bike has 100k and has the wear to show daily use for 10 years. It's worth, at best, $2500. I don't believe it's economically feasible to spend more than $500 or so to get her running again. Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated.
'08 C14 Steve's Flash Rocks!!!

The 'other' forum evicted me!

Offline Freddy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
  • Country: au
Re: Fatal KIPASS Failure? Serious problem and advice requested
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2019, 10:13:13 pm »
Fatal battery failure more likely.  Fit a new one or try a jump start.

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22530.0
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 10:44:26 pm by Freddy »
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8112
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: Fatal KIPASS Failure? Serious problem and advice requested
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2019, 01:10:01 am »
When you were stranded, did you also try removing the battery from the active fob and using it in passive mode?  Had/has the dealer?  Not sure it would have made any difference, but curious.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Freddy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
  • Country: au
Re: Fatal KIPASS Failure? Serious problem and advice requested
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2019, 01:49:10 am »
You'd think the Kaw rep would've done that - but perhaps he don't know that much about em.   :goodpost:
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline Boomer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 358
  • Country: gb
  • Wickford, UK
    • Boomers GTR Site
Re: Fatal KIPASS Failure? Serious problem and advice requested
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2019, 04:21:31 am »
Definitely try the RFID (passive) method of authentication. If that works then it's almost certainly a failure on the radio side of the KiPass ECU.
Personally, I'd suspect the KiPass ECU regardless but if passive mode works then you can at least ride it without having to replace the KiPass ECU.
George "Boomer" Garratt
Wickford, UK


Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2710
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: Fatal KIPASS Failure? Serious problem and advice requested
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2019, 05:10:23 pm »
sounds like none of the people at the dealer, nor rep, involved in the analysis are versed well on the KDS 3 protocol...

Subkey ID Error can be analyzed thru the KDS in the "realtime monitor program" within the KDS protocol.

It is either a lack of programming of the specific Imobilizer chip, along with the active fobs, when originally input; during the process of your switch module replacement (it stresses you must "re-register" all fobs, and also passive immobilizer functions) ..  If they inadvertently exited the program improperly, without all confirmations, there will be issues (I'm looking right now in the KDS manual, as I know I saw that "SUBKEY ID ERROR" when I was searching for something else...) ..or a poor connection at some plug. KDS instructions repeatedly use the term about insuring integrity of plugged in connections, meaning unplug and replug in multiple times, each and every plug thru-out the system being inspected.  I'll try to find it, and report back..
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 05:50:56 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline Freddy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
  • Country: au
Re: Fatal KIPASS Failure? Serious problem and advice requested
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2019, 07:50:44 pm »
SUBKEY ID ERROR will be displayed if an unregistered passive fob is held to 'the protrusion' and the stove knob is pressed. I just tried it as I happen to have an unregistered passive fob immobiliser key thingy.  If it was the active fob that produced this error, fit a new battery to the bike and try again.
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline Michelle

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 39
  • Country: au
  • Saving the chubby unicorns
Re: Fatal KIPASS Failure? Serious problem and advice requested
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2019, 11:17:38 pm »
... I thought it was the stuck spring again, so I gave her some good whacks. Then I got the following error on the screen, "SUBKEY ID ERROR".

Absolutely no response from the bike, whatsoever. I took the battery to a parts store. Tested good. Replaced the battery in the fob. No change. Put a new master 30 amp fuse in, same.

So, from this I gather the bike is not powering on? Were you originally using the active fob? Did you try the passive fob before you whacked it?

Quote
They called in a Kaw rep, who came and did his diagnosis.

If it doesn't turn on, what and how are they diagnosing?

Quote
Keys have been reprogrammed and the parts have supposedly removed and tested good. The other FOB, which was 100 miles away at the time of failure, also give that error code. So I'm confident the FOB's aren't the culprits.

Again, if it doesn't turn on, how are they "reprogramming keys"?
Neutron Silver 08 1400GTR ABS with KTRC K-ACT and ECO

Offline Freddy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
  • Country: au
Re: Fatal KIPASS Failure? Serious problem and advice requested
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2019, 11:35:18 pm »
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:   :goodpost:   ;D 

One other point is that IF the stove knob return spring WAS stuck in the DOWN position, KIPASS would not be activated and therefore could not possibly give SUBKEY ID ERROR.


Hey MOB, we all thought (some hoped) you were outta here, going by what you said in the last KIPASS thread.   :rotflmao:   :chugbeer:
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 12:39:19 am by Freddy »
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline Michelle

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 39
  • Country: au
  • Saving the chubby unicorns
Re: Fatal KIPASS Failure? Serious problem and advice requested
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2019, 01:42:56 am »
sounds like none of the people at the dealer, nor rep, involved in the analysis are versed well on the KDS 3 protocol...

Subkey ID Error can be analyzed thru the KDS in the "realtime monitor program" within the KDS protocol.

If the ignition switch is failing to respond, KDS cannot connect. It will show a 'communication failed' popup box. I tried it just now while I was setting up a passive fob so it works on two bikes. Until the bike is turned on both KDS and KIPASS are useless.
Neutron Silver 08 1400GTR ABS with KTRC K-ACT and ECO

Offline Freddy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
  • Country: au
Re: Fatal KIPASS Failure? Serious problem and advice requested
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2019, 02:06:59 am »
..............unless you are installing a new steering lock unit as per page 40 of KDS manual - well. that's how I read it.   ;D  But I don't have a new steering lock unit to play with. 

But that's all irrelevant.   :chugbeer:

Now, where is the OP?
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline Michelle

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 39
  • Country: au
  • Saving the chubby unicorns
Re: Fatal KIPASS Failure? Serious problem and advice requested
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2019, 02:54:54 am »
I read it that you still need an active fob to power the KIPASS ECU - only then can you register the new ignition switch.
Without a passive fob to turn on via the ignition ecu, or an active fob direct to KIPASS, you can't connect the KDS.
Neutron Silver 08 1400GTR ABS with KTRC K-ACT and ECO

Offline Freddy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
  • Country: au
Re: Fatal KIPASS Failure? Serious problem and advice requested
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2019, 04:13:23 am »
Agreed, that's as I understand it too - an A or P fob is needed BUT KDS & KIPASS will connect without the ignition being turned on ONLY if you are installing a new steering lock unit.     
We'll do some of this at Orange NSW :chugbeer: (at our annual GTR-AUS meet next month.) 
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline tjhess74

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Country: 00
Re: Fatal KIPASS Failure? Serious problem and advice requested
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2019, 08:08:59 pm »
Sorry for the absence. Work has my head spinning right now.

The passive feature was tried on site. The FOBs were all given new batteries. A new battery was tried in the bike at the dealer. It will not respond at all, except for the SUBKEY ID ERROR on the screen. If I remember correctly, the guy said KDS was not able to connect. All involved are stumped. The 'whacks' on the stove key were a version the KIPASS rock/stuck spring bypass. Obviously, the stuck spring isn't the problem.

My only question is how did this problem just creep up all of the sudden? Worked fine for 11 years. Sat for 5 days, then failure.
'08 C14 Steve's Flash Rocks!!!

The 'other' forum evicted me!

Offline Freddy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
  • Country: au
Re: Fatal KIPASS Failure? Serious problem and advice requested
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2019, 08:57:56 pm »
using an active fob in active mode (with it sitting on the seat) what does the dash display show, if anything? 

In myunderstanding of the system, subkey ID error will show only if a passive fob has not been registered to thr bike or there is a low voltage problem.  I read that the dealer tried a new battery to no avail, however I would try a jump start from a car just to be sure to be sure  - nothing to lose by trying.  Failing that I'd remove and replace the KIPASS ecu plug a few times  in case of a dirty contact - it's the one under the seat with a single plug.
The best substitute for brains is .............what?