Author Topic: First (and probably last) Valve Adjustment  (Read 2449 times)

Offline strum

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2019, 11:08:55 am »
No.  They are, indeed, on the loose side, but that was intentional because they will [almost always] tighten over time.  You will find most people will adjust them to be on the loose side.  We do admit that the .008 was not intentional nor ideal (we were targeting 0.006 - 0.007), but we couldn't do much else without having to go through a lot of work again and decided it was good enough.  It was a tight 0.008, though (so probably more like 0.0075).

 I agree its good to adjust on the high end of spec but to go out of spec to me is a no go.  I think the ex is most subject to tighten than the Intakes. I mean its youre bike but after all you been through I say go back in and get em closer. I know its a pain but you wont be back in some time if ever so this is the time to get it right.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2734
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2019, 01:24:01 pm »
Most people, even tho they are very mechanically inclined, simply don't use measurement tools that give finite readings to an ideal precision; case in point

using metric feeler stock, or feeler blades with 3 decimal place precision, and calipers or micrometers with the same 3 decimal place precision, can only "assume" what they read out is "real"; then they haave to base the readings on "did it feel tight, or loose"...

I've said before here, that an economical micrometer, delinated to 4 decimal places (.xxxx"), when used correctly, actually can offer great amounts of clarity on the actual dimension. Combined with again, very economical precision "feeler blades/strips", also combined with being "stacked, and measured to verify", give the same results in judging clearances...
It takes the guesswork about "is this dimension .0002" or .0008" off" from the nominal 3 place dimension.
Individual feelers and also the micrometer which I purchased from McMaster-Carr, only totaled me about $50, and as in my industry I could have the tools verified thru our calibration people.

Then, when happy I am working with good tools, adding in the ability to measure and swap the individual buckets, and seeing the span of deviation on those particular parts, the ability to swap around those along with my shim map, gave me extreme flexibility, and minimal shim purchase expense; while still resulting in meticulous readings.
Opening up the engine, and going thru this does take time, and an amount of patiance and skill.... but in the end, I don't really want to say "it's good enough" when I know the measurements may be "iffy" on my bike.

I'm sure what Max came out with is fine, and will not result in a catastrophic failure; Haroldo proved that it's all possible, with some essence of magic.

Congrats on the job Max.

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10752
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2019, 03:54:26 pm »
Was that grinding noise with the fan removed from the radiator or attached? I only ask because you don't want this: http://forum.cog-online.org/rallies-rides-and-events/radiator-patch-at-national/



Had that very thing happen with a friend of mine's BMW many years ago.  We used JB Weld to fix it.  It lasted 5 years and then failed when an old lady T-boned him and the bike.
"LOCTITE┬«"  The original thread locker...  #11  2016 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! 2008 C14 Moved on to a new home.

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8184
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
« Reply #48 on: November 03, 2019, 08:37:20 pm »
Was that grinding noise with the fan removed from the radiator or attached?

With it attached, spun by hand.  It is not touching anything.  Sounds like the bearings are a bit wonky.  I don't recall reading anything about this before, and searched the forums with no matches.  It could be normal for that fan, I don't know (since I have never touched it before).  I do need to apply power to it as a test to see what that sounds like, but haven't gotten to it yet.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8184
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
« Reply #49 on: November 03, 2019, 08:50:13 pm »
I agree its good to adjust on the high end of spec but to go out of spec to me is a no go.  I think the ex is most subject to tighten than the Intakes.

Well, that doesn't match the experience with this bike.  Of course, I have a sample size of exactly 1, but look at how incredibly far out of spec my intakes were compared to the exhaust [assuming from the factory they were all dead-on-center] .  Almost all the exhaust were only 0.0005 out of spec, but most of the intakes were 0.0027 out of spec (540% more out of spec than the exhaust)!  Of course "Please remember that past performance may not be indicative of future results."
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8184
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
« Reply #50 on: November 03, 2019, 08:53:53 pm »
I'm sure what Max came out with is fine, and will not result in a catastrophic failure[...]Congrats on the job Max.

Don't congratulate yet.  It could be weeks before this nightmare ends... longer if something goes wrong.  Still not sure we can ever get it all back together again [correctly].
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8184
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2019, 03:24:00 pm »
Today we put in a "Time Sert" thread insert which repaired the right engine mount and reattached the canyon cage using a new bolt.  Reassembled the throttle bodies, velocity stacks, plugged everything back in, reattached the radiator, throttle, engine stays, air box covers.  It is close to testing.

After 4 hour, my friend left and I continued connecting things for another hour until I hit the fairing stays and I can't figure them out, so I will wait for help.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2734
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2019, 04:26:14 pm »
I'll dig thru my photos, and post if it would help, using the Kaw parts Microfiche may help also in seeing which is which, and what bolts go where...

Prolly tomorrow, during halftime of the game.

 :'( 8) ;)

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8184
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2019, 11:46:02 pm »
I'll dig thru my photos, and post if it would help, using the Kaw parts Microfiche may help also in seeing which is which, and what bolts go where...

That would be helpful.  The photos in the manual are practically useless- they are so small and bleak.  If I just had a few decent photos of the two sides of the bike with just the covers off.  I am kicking myself for not doing so.

Damn it is cold suddenly.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8184
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
« Reply #54 on: November 10, 2019, 11:02:14 am »
That would be helpful. 

Never mind.  I actually figured it out.  FINALLY.  So all that is now done, too, plus I put the tank back on.  It is ready to test.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Online fartymarty

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1536
  • Country: us
  • COG#9712 '10 ABS
Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2019, 11:32:58 am »
fingers crossed emoticon goes here.  :thumbs:

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8184
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
« Reply #56 on: November 10, 2019, 01:51:17 pm »
It works!!!!!!!

 :)  :D  :)  :D  ;D  :D  :)

Had my friend on the phone and he gave the green light to try it.  First attempt failed with flashing fuel level and no sound of fuel pump.  Yep, forgot those two connectors.  After that, started after the third try!  Then it starts instantly each time (and with no familiar timing chain rattle, either).  Made a hell of a lot of smoke, scared me, but friend said it was just oil.  So worked on filling and filling the cooling system with distilled water.  Then let it run until fans cycled twice.  Now waiting for it to cool down so I can drain it and replace with antifreeze mix.

As much as I wanted to test the TB sync, it isn't going to happen.  Neither of us have the time or patience or tools to do it.  Oh well.

I am going to replace the final drive oil now.  Then farings and rubber crap nightmare is after that.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8184
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2019, 06:45:12 pm »
I spent hours putting on fairings, save one (the middle left) because I am concerned I might need to add more coolant.  It only accepted 2.5qt, same as when I filled for flushing.  I don't know if that is normal or not.

So I decided to take a test drive tonight (with that one fairing off)....

WOW

What a difference!!!  All the low-end problems are now GONE.  It is smooth as glass- especially noticeable with launching and downshifting to a stop.  I knew it was bad, but the contrast is amazing.  It is so easy to drive now.  I only rode for 30 min, haven't even eaten dinner yet, but I really wanted to keep going.

No change in coolant level in reserve/overflow tank.  Still exactly on "full".  During the ride (ambient 55F) I was always at 2 bars (of 6) when moving and 3 bars when stopped for a short while.  That is normal for this weather.  At home, I let it idle in garage, and it crept to 4 bars, then after a while the fans started cycling, keeping it at 4 bars.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Online fartymarty

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1536
  • Country: us
  • COG#9712 '10 ABS
Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2019, 10:37:56 pm »
Congrats max'!  :thumbs: :chugbeer:

I guess I better get that overcoat and some heated gear on, Hell is about to freeze over.  :P

Offline Conrad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • Country: us
Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
« Reply #59 on: November 12, 2019, 07:33:13 am »
Well done Max!    :chugbeer:
Northern Illinois   Silverdammit '08 C-14 ABS

"Don't bother me with facts, Son. I've already made up my mind." -Foghorn Leghorn