Author Topic: Nasty Snatch  (Read 4491 times)

Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10953
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2019, 06:52:20 am »
LOL..
"LOCTITE┬«"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! 2008 C14 Moved on to a new home, 2016 RM traded in.

Offline Conrad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5793
  • Country: us
Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2019, 07:03:58 am »
Location is Uk and they do refer to the bike as an 07 at times.  Keep calm, and carry on.


As for the OP, throttle tamers do help.  It helped me for sure.  Also make sure that there is the correct amount of free play in the throttle as well.

That reminded me of some funny coasters that my wife just bought.

Tut, tut,....language my dear friend. (the management)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 11:55:16 am by VirginiaJim »
Northern Illinois   Silverdammit '08 C-14 ABS

"Don't bother me with facts, Son. I've already made up my mind." -Foghorn Leghorn

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8372
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2019, 07:31:45 am »
cocky?

OMG
I supposed I asked for that...
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2898
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2019, 03:32:35 pm »
Hi all

Thank you all so much for your replies.  Very informative.  I think as much as anything, I wondered if my bike had the flies- I am planning on a full service in Spring, but can't take the bike off the road as it's my 'daily drive'.

My bike is registered on 1st August 2007 and I'm in England

The title was intentional :)

I've adjusted the cables and idle speed.  Have stuff to do, so wont test it until my commute tomorrow, but I think it will make a big difference.

My '08 was purchased here in the USA on 7/7/07, but both the title, and registration for plates, describe the model year as 2008.
Furthermore, if you go to the Kawasaki website, and research parts; and input a model year of 2007.... you will find there is no Concours model listed; either C10, or C14... just to clarify.

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Online fartymarty

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1621
  • Country: us
  • COG#9712 '10 ABS
Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2019, 04:33:03 pm »
Let's use this scenario so we are all talking about the same nasty bits.

You're sitting at a red light astride your Gen II C14 in a left turn lane (US, right turn lane UK etc) behind a Prius (why not) ..anyway...the protected left turn arrow turns green
and the car in front of you goes into the turn...as the car is in the middle of the intersection you take off behind it...
just as the Prius is entering the lane of the cross street it brakes and decides to go slowly fade to the right so it can enter the corner gas station.
You don't have to brake, but you do have to close the throttle to avoid rear ending the Prius, ...finally the Prius is out of the way and you add a little
throttle...when Nasty Snatch.  Now in this scenario you aren't going very fast (you're behind a Prius remember)
and you are still in first gear and slightly banked for the slow turn, so you don't add a whole lot of throttle, just enough to continue.

I've had all three flashes* (4 if you count the OEM factory flash; 5 if you count eco mode {or whatever max' wants to insist on calling it ::)}), I've had my throttle adjusted per the owner's manual,
 and I have it as Steve said to adjust it where it has no play at all....and in the above scenario there has been no change...ever. It always does it. Now with over 90,000 miles on my bike it could be
that I have excessive drive line wear, however my C14 has done this since new in 2011. No I haven't tried a throttle tamer, but I think I can simulate one by being extra careful and gradually
 adding throttle which I have tried and got nasty snatch regardless.  Frankly I give up, it's just going to stay nasty. I still love the bike anyway and I like two of the 3 after market flashes (I'm not getting
 into the which is better wars, let's leave that on the other forum where it belongs) but none of them solved this problem.
Before someone says all bikes do that, my Dr650 doesn't, maybe all shaft drives do that as I've only owned one of those.

* Guhl; Steve's Decel; Ivan's

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8372
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2019, 04:59:36 pm »
if you count eco mode {or whatever max' wants to insist on calling it ::)}),

I call it what the manual calls it- FEAM (fuel economy assistance mode), but I know what is meant by "eco", as long as we aren't talking about the confusing indicators on the dash.

Quote
and in the above scenario there has been no change...ever. It always does it. No I haven't tried a throttle tamer, but I think I can simulate one by being extra careful and gradually  adding throttle which I have tried and got nasty snatch regardless.

You might try one, but there is a certain amount of "snatchiness" that seems to be in the very soul of the Concours.  However, it is also my experience that both the Shoodaben reflash and Throttle Tamer help considerably with the issue.  (The Guhl flash doesn't address it at all; I suspect Ivan's doesn't much, but I don't know).

Quote
maybe all shaft drives do that as I've only owned one of those.

I don't see how it could relate to shaft drive.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline O.C.

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 259
  • Country: gb
Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2019, 01:36:27 am »
Hi all

Thank you all so much for your replies.  Very informative.  I think as much as anything, I wondered if my bike had the flies- I am planning on a full service in Spring, but can't take the bike off the road as it's my 'daily drive'.

My bike is registered on 1st August 2007 and I'm in England

The title was intentional :)

I've adjusted the cables and idle speed.  Have stuff to do, so wont test it until my commute tomorrow, but I think it will make a big difference.


There is a UK forum which may also be of help /interest to you , registration  is required its f.o.c  ;)   

http://www.gtr1400.co.uk/forums/   
CARPE DIEM

Offline Conrad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5793
  • Country: us
Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2019, 05:49:54 am »
Throttle Tamer to the rescue. (click to zoom)


Stock tube on the left Throttle Tamer on the right.
Northern Illinois   Silverdammit '08 C-14 ABS

"Don't bother me with facts, Son. I've already made up my mind." -Foghorn Leghorn

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4848
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2019, 06:10:39 am »
Just my personal opinion and experience but taking all the slack out of the throttle cables has, at least so far, cured the throttle snatch on several C-14's I have adjusted and ridden, including my own. In fact, the difference between slightly loose and no slack throttle cables is almost amazing. Of course I have to be careful doing this so that there is no additional strain put on the throttle body throttle rod, and that is easy to do by not over- tightening the cables but making the adjustment slowly while carefully feeling for throttle cable slack has worked well for me.

Shaft drive bikes have more drive train play due to gear clearance and so present more of a problem with throttle snatch that chain drive bikes do. Plus chain drive bikes have a little give in the chain as it comes up to full tightness when rolling on the throttle while shaft drive bikes simply use up the clearance and the gears slam into each other.

Brian


<snip>

I've had all three flashes* (4 if you count the OEM factory flash; 5 if you count eco mode {or whatever max' wants to insist on calling it ::)}), I've had my throttle adjusted per the owner's manual,
 and I have it as Steve said to adjust it where it has no play at all....and in the above scenario there has been no change...ever. It always does it. Now with over 90,000 miles on my bike it could be
that I have excessive drive line wear, however my C14 has done this since new in 2011. No I haven't tried a throttle tamer, but I think I can simulate one by being extra careful and gradually
 adding throttle which I have tried and got nasty snatch regardless.  Frankly I give up, it's just going to stay nasty. I still love the bike anyway and I like two of the 3 after market flashes (I'm not getting
 into the which is better wars, let's leave that on the other forum where it belongs) but none of them solved this problem.
Before someone says all bikes do that, my Dr650 doesn't, maybe all shaft drives do that as I've only owned one of those.

* Guhl; Steve's Decel; Ivan's
« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 11:56:15 am by B.D.F. »
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Pillow

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 26
  • Country: england
Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2019, 11:27:27 am »
Rode much better on the test commute.  Problem feels 50%+ better.  If that's as good as I can get it, then I'll be ok with that.  One thing that does bother me is when 'overclosing' the throttle, the bike stalls.  And only when cold.  It did it before I made the adjustment, I just forgot to mention it.

Offline Y0ssarian

  • Arena
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 83
  • Country: us
  • 97% chance of being hit by a piano
Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2019, 02:05:08 pm »
I've found that fresh gear oil in the rear seems to help, also.
The words of the prophets are written on the cylinder walls.

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4848
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2019, 03:02:39 pm »
This is starting to look like that 'how to keep your rocket pointed up' thread.....

Brian

I've found that fresh gear oil in the rear seems to help, also.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8372
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2019, 03:19:58 pm »
Shaft drive bikes have more drive train play due to gear clearance and so present more of a problem with throttle snatch that chain drive bikes do.

Never thought of it that way.

Quote
Plus chain drive bikes have a little give in the chain as it comes up to full tightness when rolling on the throttle while shaft drive bikes simply use up the clearance and the gears slam into each other.

But our shaft drive has a cush-drive that would absorb at least some shock (or at least isolate that from transmitting to the ground), acting like a "stretching" unit, too, no?
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8372
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2019, 03:25:05 pm »
Rode much better on the test commute.  Problem feels 50%+ better.  If that's as good as I can get it, then I'll be ok with that.  One thing that does bother me is when 'overclosing' the throttle, the bike stalls.  And only when cold.  It did it before I made the adjustment, I just forgot to mention it.

Hmm.  Well, I can say I had a LOT of problems with cold stalling and ride performance when my valves started getting way out of spec.... to the point it was doing it not just when cold, either.  Let's hope that isn't your issue, too.  In which case I would ask how many miles does the bike have, and at what point was the valve lash last checked/adjusted?

Otherwise, what is your cold idle speed?  You can adjust that up some to compensate and it might help some...
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4848
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2019, 03:29:50 pm »
Chain drive bikes also have a cush drive and it serves the same purpose. But no matter how good the 'fix' or damper is, nothing beats not generating that metallic clack in the first place and chain drives just do not generate it. So yes, the cush drive does make a shaft drive motorcycle transfer power better and buffers it but shaft drives just cannot be as smooth as chains or belts.

As a chain drive comes up due to tension, it gets stiffer and more resistant to further stiffening. But it is a curve over time, not a sudden jolt and that is why chain drive motorcycles (and all machinery for that matter) are so well buffered regarding power transmission. Add to that that chain drives absorb <almost> no power and they really are a great way to transmit power on weight sensitive vehicles and other machinery. The only downside is that on a motorcycle, they are external and exposed to the environment; change the roller design to a timing chain design and seal it in an oil bath environment and it would approach nirvana, though at the price of complexity and a very involved sealing system. Hence shaft drives.....

Brian

Never thought of it that way.

But our shaft drive has a cush-drive that would absorb at least some shock (or at least isolate that from transmitting to the ground), acting like a "stretching" unit, too, no?
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com