Author Topic: Nasty Snatch  (Read 3667 times)

Offline chi-gpz1100

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2019, 03:38:18 pm »
I think the way the throttle is closed plays a role in this as well.  It's a minute thing but rather than abruptly closing it, try easing into the closed position (if that makes sense) then easing out.  Last bike was chain driven ('09 fz1).  It too had some driveline lash in throttle transitions. It was a rocket alright, with just shy of 150hp at the wheel (thanks fuel moto). Easing in the transitions is key (as is the case with many things........).

Offline maxtog

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2019, 03:47:45 pm »
I think the way the throttle is closed plays a role in this as well.  It's a minute thing but rather than abruptly closing it, try easing into the closed position (if that makes sense) then easing out. 

That is exactly how I describe "snatch"- abrupt power on AND off, making it difficult to control and finesse.  It was a HUGE adjustment coming from the ZRX and moving to the Concours.... and I could just not get used to it.  It wasn't until I installed the Throttle Tamer that I felt like I was in-control once again.  All it does is change the rate as which the throttle is opened and closed in the lower segments (making it require more movement).  A nice side-effect is the lined-metal tube seems much smoother.  The C-14 was my first fuel-injected bike, which I think was part of it; I have to wonder if later/different models act the same.

Anyway, I recommend people NOT install a Throttle Tamer if they are going to reflash with Shoodaben.  Flash first and see if that is enough change (because it does help) and if not, then take further action.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2019, 03:50:58 pm »
Chain drive bikes also have a cush drive and it serves the same purpose. [...]

All good info.

Quote
But no matter how good the 'fix' or damper is, nothing beats not generating that metallic clack in the first place and chain drives just do not generate it. So yes, the cush drive does make a shaft drive motorcycle transfer power better and buffers it but shaft drives just cannot be as smooth as chains or belts.

While I can agree with all that, it isn't what I think of as "snatch" (see previous post), nor have I found those effects to be of much consequence.  But I can understand if some people might feel something like that and throw it into the "snatch" category.  Although I don't.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline strum

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2019, 08:27:45 pm »
 I know no will run out and get a full exhaust to solve this but one pleasant surprise I have with my new exhaust and Steve's Area P MRP flash is the best on off throttle of any I have tried.  I cant find a snatchy spot any where.

Offline Boomer

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2019, 02:42:41 am »
Welcome Pillow  8)
Nice initial subject line  :rotflmao:

You will never get rid of the snatch, but correct adjustment of the cables and one of SiSFs flashes helps greatly (I have the Decel flash but have no experience of other flashes, so can we please not start the flash wars here?).
I used to filter (lane-split for the Yanks ;)) some 20-30 miles every day on the M25/A127 and when you are constantly switching between acceleration and deceleration like that the snatch gets REALLY irritating. On a normal ride it's barely noticeable but in traffic, especially with such a powerful bike, it's a PITA.
My carburettor fuelled GTR1000 doesn't have any snatch at all, despite having shaft drive.

I think part of the problem is that the frame/motor/ecu were designed for the ZZR1400 (ZX14) which is chain driven.
Is there anyone on here that has an FJR1300 or Honda ST1300 that can comment on how snatchy those injected shaft-drive bikes are.

I guess I'm asking if Shaft + Injection leads to Snatch  :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :popcorn:
George "Boomer" Garratt
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2019, 05:37:15 am »
I think part of the problem is that the frame/motor/ecu were designed for the ZZR1400 (ZX14) which is chain driven.
Is there anyone on here that has an FJR1300 or Honda ST1300 that can comment on how snatchy those injected shaft-drive bikes are.

Or, conversely, anyone who has a ZX14 and can share how "snatchy" or not it is, compared to the C14?
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline O.C.

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2019, 07:15:16 am »
Welcome Pillow  8)
Nice initial subject line  :rotflmao:

You will never get rid of the snatch, but correct adjustment of the cables and one of SiSFs flashes helps greatly (I have the Decel flash but have no experience of other flashes, so can we please not start the flash wars here?).
I used to filter (lane-split for the Yanks ;)) some 20-30 miles every day on the M25/A127 and when you are constantly switching between acceleration and deceleration like that the snatch gets REALLY irritating. On a normal ride it's barely noticeable but in traffic, especially with such a powerful bike, it's a PITA.
My carburettor fuelled GTR1000 doesn't have any snatch at all, despite having shaft drive.

I think part of the problem is that the frame/motor/ecu were designed for the ZZR1400 (ZX14) which is chain driven.
Is there anyone on here that has an FJR1300 or Honda ST1300 that can comment on how snatchy those injected shaft-drive bikes are.

I guess I'm asking if Shaft + Injection leads to Snatch  :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :popcorn:

I owned a Yamaha 1200 Super Tenere which was shaft drive and injected, it was only slightly 'snatchy' but it was a twin cylinder machine and had 2 mapping options Town or Sport modes, it also had fly by wire combined YCC-T Yamaha Chip Controlled Throttle.... it was still a little 'snatchy'   ::)   

FWIW, my pal who also owns a Super Ten has had his bike Chipped and he says it is now a smooth as silk  ;)   
CARPE DIEM

KLZ 1000 GT SE ..GREEN

Offline Pillow

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2019, 10:37:32 am »
Hmm.  Well, I can say I had a LOT of problems with cold stalling and ride performance when my valves started getting way out of spec.... to the point it was doing it not just when cold, either.  Let's hope that isn't your issue, too.  In which case I would ask how many miles does the bike have, and at what point was the valve lash last checked/adjusted?

Otherwise, what is your cold idle speed?  You can adjust that up some to compensate and it might help some...

It's done about 34, 000, only 3, 000 of which are mine.  Seller said it had recently been done, but I was planning on checking in the warmer weather, when I would do 'everything'.  Cold idle speed is slightly slower than when warm, plus as I mentioned, if you overclose the throttle, it stalls (doesn't do this when warm).

Offline Pillow

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2019, 10:41:27 am »
I think part of the problem is that the frame/motor/ecu were designed for the ZZR1400 (ZX14) which is chain driven.
Is there anyone on here that has an FJR1300 or Honda ST1300 that can comment on how snatchy those injected shaft-drive bikes are.

I guess I'm asking if Shaft + Injection leads to Snatch  :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :popcorn:

My previous main bike was an ST1300.  It would do it, but to a MUCH lesser extent.  There were threads on getting rid of the throttle snatch (my mate's one is sorted). 

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2019, 01:08:55 pm »
It's done about 34, 000, only 3, 000 of which are mine.  Seller said it had recently been done, but I was planning on checking in the warmer weather, when I would do 'everything'.  Cold idle speed is slightly slower than when warm, plus as I mentioned, if you overclose the throttle, it stalls (doesn't do this when warm).


Set the idle about 1100 or so when warm...
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Offline Pillow

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2019, 01:34:54 pm »

Set the idle about 1100 or so when warm...

Yep, done already.  Still idles lower and splutters on light throttle when cold.

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2019, 01:38:44 pm »
Even without the flash from Shoodaben Engineering, it never did that.  Never did it with the flash either.  Smoothest idling machine I've ever owned.  Mine was an early model bought in Aug of 2007.

Brings tears to my eyes, it does, to see all those English/UK flags on our site.

There's another site you should look at as well.   http://gtr1400.co.uk  Bunch of fine people over there.
"LOCTITE┬«"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! 2008 C14 Moved on to a new home, 2016 RM traded in.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2019, 02:55:43 pm »
gonna go out on the limb again, and suggest pulling that air filter out, for inspection and replacement if needed...

Search online for the HiFlo brand, it will save big $$ and works as good as OEM


46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline maxtog

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2019, 03:48:04 pm »
Yep, done already.  Still idles lower and splutters on light throttle when cold.

That is not a good sign.  The C14 is notoriously good at idling and not acting up with throttle when cold.  My was fine for 8 years and then starting having issues- all due to valve lash.  I had never even TOUCHED the idle speed adjuster before then (didn't even know it was there).  Did he provide proof/maintenance records that the valve inspection was done?  Maybe a dealer that you can contact?  Might also want to run a few tanks of Techron additive through it just for giggles, but don't expect some miracle (unless the injectors are really fouled).  Clogged air filter could contribute, although that might show more on high rpm (like a clogged fuel filter would show on higher throttle and RPM).

I believe dying/sputtering and such on too much throttle (especially when cold, but otherwise to some extent, too) is primarily an fuel/air mix/combustion issue (too rich/lean, contaminated with exhaust, etc).  If your gas is good, and the injectors are clean, it is most likely the valves :(
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2019, 04:21:14 pm »
OK, NOW WE ARE DOING "i THINK" stuff.. think... low speed cold idle is where the airflow is MOST criticle, to make a bike run.. not wide open.. a clogged filter will not idle, but will run at higher rpms, when warm.. once the engine warms, the air in the airbox is warmer, and will allow airflow thru the congealed goop, on a cold air filter.. once warmed, it softens, and melts a bit, and air can be supplied..

any bike can run well when it's pressed and at high rpm, not so much off idle, or cold.. and being fuel injected, and not having the same issues a "jetted carb has", air is the prime factor. Now, that said, if valves are "off", they also control flow into the cylinders, but really don't change the performance as much as the "available air just off idle", that a combo of tight valves, and a restricted filter do.

there is method to my comments, I have been doing this a while.... not trying to be "snippy", but the airfilter controls a lot more than most people realize on this bike. IMHO it's marginal for its longevity, and needs regimented, and regular attention to make the bike run right.

So Please, take this from someone who HAS done their own service, in timely manners, and has been inside of the "plastic wayyyy to many times to count".  Again, if you have not actually "done" the work, it's a bit hard to swallow advice on what may "seem" to be the issue... kinda like playing the blues, without paying the dues. :rotflmao:

Oh, and PLEASE, refrain from dumping chemicals into the fuel.. it NEVER helps diagnose, or correct an issue, it just masks underlying issues for a tank of fuel.. bump the cold speed idle up to 1100rpm, at startup, via the adjuster knob;  it will drop back once warm... Insure clean fresh fuel, and a clean air filter.. and run from there.

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..