Author Topic: Nasty Snatch  (Read 1846 times)

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2019, 04:40:05 pm »
Could it be the fuel filter in the tank?
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2019, 04:58:10 pm »
Could it be the fuel filter in the tank?

not likely with the miles he has, and the fact it runs well when warm, and does not exhibit higher RPM stumble issues.. fuel filter really shows up when trying to maintain constant higher speeds, on longer runs, and is evident by variations in performance "when forced to flow more" than at idle..  The only thing I've found that is really clearly effecting idle speed vs off idle, especially cold, is air filter, and poor quality fuel. The filter had/has little to do with the quality of the fuel.

I did mine this summer, never had an issue, but just did it due to the time it spent idle, and differences in fuel from Va, to Ohio.

probably could have let it go till 60k, but as I was doing the test on new MRP flash, and going to the Nationals.. I did it pre-preemptively..and as I waned to be very precise in my testing, I wanted a perfectly clean system to evaluate the changes... I don't like doing 5 different things, and trying to figure later which really made the difference.. if ya get my drift;  so I won't be doing it for another 30k miles, or much more.

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Offline maxtog

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2019, 05:05:11 pm »
low speed cold idle is where the airflow is MOST criticle, to make a bike run.. not wide open..

Agreed, although the OP indicated no problem with idle, just with low-throttle dying.

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a clogged filter will not idle, but will run at higher rpms, when warm.. [...] any bike can run well when it's pressed and at high rpm,

I am not sure I completely agree with that (not that you would care if I do or not), based on how it was explained to me by my friend (a master mechanic).  He would agree that a very clogged air filter would affect idle and, to a lesser degree, low-throttle dying.  But as the RPM goes up, the amount of air needed goes up tremendously and the engine will get starved for air, greatly affecting performance.  That is what I meant when I said "although that might show more on high rpm."  A filter that is even 80% clogged should have enough air for idle and low-throttle take-off.  OP hasn't said how high throttle/high RPM performance is, but I suspect at a clog level enough to affect idle, it would destroy high performance, too.  This is not to say I don't think it would be a good idea to check/replace the air filter- it is an excellent troubleshooting step, although it isn't all that easy (at least it wasn't to me, lots of stuff to remove, and Canyons in the way too; hell of a lot easier than a valve lash inspection, though).

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there is method to my comments, I have been doing this a while.... not trying to be "snippy"

Oh come on, you can't help but be "snippy"!  At least us old-timers know it is your nature.  :)
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2019, 05:26:26 pm »
no problem Max, you can come over and work on my bike anytime, I'll just stand behind you with a cane, and correct any errors during a process... :rotflmao: :chugbeer: :chugbeer:



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Offline maxtog

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2019, 05:50:09 pm »
no problem Max, you can come over and work on my bike anytime, I'll just stand behind you with a cane, and correct any errors during a process...

Ug, I would die from blood loss in no time!
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline gPink

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2019, 06:28:34 pm »
no problem Max, you can come over and work on my bike anytime, I'll just stand behind you with a cane, and correct any errors during a process... :rotflmao: :chugbeer: :chugbeer:

 :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :stirpot: :rotflmao: :hail:


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Offline Riverszzr

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herky jerky throttle
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2019, 07:12:52 pm »
Man, couldn't anyone think up a better thread topic title than nasty snatch........

Nobody likes nasty snatch, nobody....

Many a gsxr have this issue when the TPS sensor is adjusted too high or too low......... But who am I fooling, far too many don't think you ever need to adjust the TPS or any of the other sensors......

Offline strum

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #52 on: December 10, 2019, 07:36:51 pm »
Im gonna have to go with MOB on this one .  Its worth a look to check out the air filter.  At least it'll eliminate one thing.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2019, 07:47:28 pm »
Im gonna have to go with MOB on this one.  Its worth a look to check out the air filter.  At least it'll eliminate one thing.

I am pretty sure probably all of us agree that checking the air filter is a good troubleshooting step.  Especially true when there is any type of performance issue and the bike was purchased used with perhaps an unknown or uncertain regimen of maintenance.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Freddy

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2019, 05:37:21 am »
MOB said:bump the cold speed idle up to 1100rpm, at startup, via the adjuster knob;  it will drop back once warm..     

Cold idle speed is factory set by the adjustment on the left side of the throttle body and controlled by the ECU via the secondary throttle shaft as I remember (I haven't had the plastic off one recently) and not to be played with. The adjuster knob you refer to is for warm idle. 
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #55 on: December 11, 2019, 09:45:57 am »
MOB said:bump the cold speed idle up to 1100rpm, at startup, via the adjuster knob;  it will drop back once warm..     

Cold idle speed is factory set by the adjustment on the left side of the throttle body and controlled by the ECU via the secondary throttle shaft as I remember (I haven't had the plastic off one recently) and not to be played with. The adjuster knob you refer to is for warm idle.

You are correct, I was having a brain fart when I made that comment... My apologies;
But, if continued "cold start" issues are a problem, and are not remedied by all the other options (i.e. air filter, valve adjust, no leaks, etc,) and the throttle body "bypass"/synch screws were never messed with, a minor adjustment to that "stop screw" for cold idle shaft would do no harm... the one in the picture below..  It could be tricky and time consuming, as it has to be done "cold engine", upon cold start, and the throttle cannot be touched as that would throw off the way the sensors read each time.

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline Freddy

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #56 on: December 11, 2019, 04:02:01 pm »
 :goodpost:   :chugbeer:
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline Pillow

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #57 on: December 12, 2019, 03:13:00 pm »
You are correct, I was having a brain fart when I made that comment... My apologies;
But, if continued "cold start" issues are a problem, and are not remedied by all the other options (i.e. air filter, valve adjust, no leaks, etc,) and the throttle body "bypass"/synch screws were never messed with, a minor adjustment to that "stop screw" for cold idle shaft would do no harm... the one in the picture below..  It could be tricky and time consuming, as it has to be done "cold engine", upon cold start, and the throttle cannot be touched as that would throw off the way the sensors read each time.

That screw doesn't touch the linkage when cold.  Might that indicate it being out of adjustment?  What engine speed would you set it to when cold?

Offline Freddy

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #58 on: December 12, 2019, 03:24:35 pm »
What rpm does it show at startup?
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Nasty Snatch
« Reply #59 on: December 12, 2019, 03:26:49 pm »
ahhhhh... revelations....

that screw should rest on the link, before turning the ignition on, and you can twist the throttle one of 2 times, and let it slam home, prior to turning the ignition on.. when you turn it "on", you might hear a "clack", that is the throttle plates closing fully..when COLD...(with the ignition key turned "on") before touching throttle, and before ever starting, check again in that manner, and if it does "not" touch, then adjust that screw, again I stress cold, and before ever starting the bike, until it touches when the ignition is on... and then add about 1/8 to 1/4 turn to the screw... then proceed to start and test.. the idle should fall back off as it runs and warms (withing about 1 minute max elapsed time) and then rely on the "warm' bike adjustment via the adjuster knob.. again, it might take a couple tries, but everything must begin from "cold" condition.

as for "cold start idle rpm", I can't give a specific figure, non exists.. but I can say my '08 when cold started, hovers about 1200-1400+rpm, and drops back rapidly on the first "blip" of the wrist, about 40 seconds later..   after a full minute or more, you are on the "manual knob" adjuster stop, as the throttle control closes the butterfly's shaft electrically, via the throttle controller system.

30 YEARS OF KAW.....