Author Topic: Weed  (Read 2025 times)

Offline maxtog

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Re: Weed
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2019, 07:06:56 am »
Tobacco is legal, alcohol is legal. Do two wrongs make a right? No, but pot should be legal as well based on the logic of legal booze and tobacco.

That is actually not a fair comparison.  Although tobacco (depending on how it is used and how much it is used) can greatly damage the health of the user, nicotine generally doesn't.  But health impact really isn't the issue.  Nicotine can be addictive, but it is not a "mind/reality altering drug" like marijuana and illicit drugs are.  A much more valid comparison of nicotine is with caffeine (America's most popular drug).

Alcohol, however, is a very valid comparison, especially to point out the hypocrisy of the "drug war."
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Weed
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2019, 12:29:04 pm »
If we're on the subject of driving impaired, one cannot leave out cell phone usage.  I'll take a stoner any day of the week vs alcohol impairment or hand held cell phone user.  In fact, just this past Saturday, the President of our Riders Group nearly got severely injured by a stupid woman using her phone and not paying attention to what's in front of her.  Fortunately she looked up in time to lock the brakes before hitting him from the rear.  He had it all on camera and just about was going to ride into a field when she realized what she was doing.  Punishments for driving impaired (any reason) should be harsh.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Weed
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2019, 02:23:33 pm »
Punishments for driving impaired (any reason) should be harsh.

I couldn't agree more.  Sleepy driving, trying to read a book, taking an over-the-counter cold medicine, screaming at the kids in the back seat, not wearing necessary glasses, applying makeup, messing with the stereo, texting, trying to tie a shoe.  Bad decisions are just bad.

It has little to do with the cause of [voluntary] impairment and everything to do with the bad outcomes.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline gPink

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Re: Weed
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2019, 04:37:18 pm »
Paranoid much?
mmmm...maybe.....why do you ask?    8)
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Weed
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2019, 05:36:51 pm »
mmmm...maybe.....why do you ask?    8)


 ::) ::) ::) :D :'( :'( :P

it takes all kinds...

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Offline Conrad

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Re: Weed
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2019, 07:25:41 am »
mmmm...maybe.....why do you ask?    8)

 :rotflmao:
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Weed
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2019, 07:30:16 am »
snip...
If we're on the subject of driving impaired, one cannot leave out cell phone usage.  I'll take a stoner any day of the week vs alcohol impairment or hand held cell phone user. 
Punishments for driving impaired (any reason) should be harsh.

snip...
I couldn't agree more.  Sleepy driving, trying to read a book, taking an over-the-counter cold medicine, screaming at the kids in the back seat, not wearing necessary glasses, applying makeup, messing with the stereo, texting, trying to tie a shoe.  Bad decisions are just bad.

It has little to do with the cause of [voluntary] impairment and everything to do with the bad outcomes.

100% agreement here! Don't forget eating and driving and all combinations of the above, such as. Eating while on the phone AND 'driving'. That's a winning combination right there. Look Ma, no hands. 
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Weed
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2019, 05:12:30 pm »
That is actually not a fair comparison.  Although tobacco (depending on how it is used and how much it is used) can greatly damage the health of the user, nicotine generally doesn't.  But health impact really isn't the issue.  Nicotine can be addictive, but it is not a "mind/reality altering drug" like marijuana and illicit drugs are.  A much more valid comparison of nicotine is with caffeine (America's most popular drug).

Alcohol, however, is a very valid comparison, especially to point out the hypocrisy of the "drug war."

Think about that for a moment... Tobacco, was a mainstay of economy, that founded the America's.. it's a deadly toxin, there can be no dispute, nothing about any use of tobacco, can be made acceptable in any means, shape, or form, under the guise as "safe"... what a load of b/s, and associated ignorance to try to say different.

The complete legislative history, against Cannabis, has been because of "molly hatchet" mentality, while even tho we had "prohibition", alcohol was brought back, and taxed, as was tobacco,
from the start.. and the tobacco money went back to England, not the USA, as we weren't 'the USA" during that time.. the inception of all the Cannabis laws, are a direct result of racial discrimination, based upon a proposed "taxable product", when it came about, and never came to fruition, because even tho permits, tax stamps, and some semblance of government "attention", it was quashed, and still is.. level I drug? come on.  We have long learned that McCarthy-ism laws, were ridiculous.. but we still base current law, on threadlike b/s.
really, research this, go back in timelines, see what "transpired" to make "pot" an issue today...
If everyone in the USA, sowed 5 cannabis seeds, this year, and grew 5 plants.. on any property... all these laws would be gone.
the matter of fact, of the reason the "war on drugs", utilizing pot, as a subject, has been, and always will be a reason to allow an "adjacent country" to prosper, invisibly, under the radar..   change the law, and mexico can only sell METH now... bust that line, leave the pot out of the equation... no more/shut off $$$ for south american weed... what a freaking concept.

Now, lets all go watch the lattest show of "Moonshiner's", smile, and laugh about just how "IN YOUR FACE", THIS ISSUE IS.. come on people, it's against the law, not that alcohol is, but MAKING IT IS< it's all TAX money... pay the GOV.. all good, don't pay the GOV, and just drink it, (and never sell it).. you go to prison... so...
GROW POT, GIVE IT AWAY, SMOKE IT IF YOU GOT IT... AT HOME.... DON'T DRIVE UNDER INFLUENCE..... all cured.

Now I still have issues with people, that say "i never smoked pot, never drank" spouting off on the perceived conceptions in the mind they have, about what is right for everyone.    I'm likely to respond, as an American, and a voter, to just respond "F/O", simply because the data they have is nill on the effects..

I never liked the fact that Clinton said "well, ye, I smoked pot, but I didn't inhale..." I would have bitchsmacked him if I went to school with him.. b/s/, but then, we watched his diatribe about "I never had sexual relations... etc., " when he got a hummer... tell that to poor old Hugh Jackson.. because he got hosed for the same damned thing..  but that "was different"

Back when helmet laws in Ohio, were abolished, I stopped wearing a helmet.. realized very quickly, it was STUPID to abolish.. and put my helmet back on, and geared up .. I see it all the time now, here, because we "won".. and against all that opposed it, none of which were active motorcyclists..  but, the law "won"..   smoking weed, and decisions on it's legality, not the same thing.

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline gPink

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Re: Weed
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2019, 06:49:09 pm »
A drugged populace is a biddable populace.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Weed
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2019, 09:56:54 pm »
Think about that for a moment... Tobacco, was a mainstay of economy, that founded the America's.. it's a deadly toxin, there can be no dispute, nothing about any use of tobacco, can be made acceptable in any means, shape, or form, under the guise as "safe"... what a load of b/s, and associated ignorance to try to say different.

Not sure where that comes from.  You are quoting me and then extrapolating something I didn't say or imply.  I never said nor implied that tobacco use was "safe".  I did say nicotine is relatively safe, however, on the level as caffeine.  The two should not be mistaken for each other.  I would appreciate clarification on your apparent argument with me... perhaps what I said triggered a straw man argument from you?

That aside, it is pretty well established that tobacco use harm is directly related to how it is consumed, what type, and how often.  Pipe smoking (without inhaling, of course), for example, causes very little heath harm to most users.  Some studies actually show a slight INCREASE in life expectancy, ironically.  Cigar use is similar in only mildly higher danger.  In both, harm mitigation is partially due to less frequent use (and is rarely addictive in this manner), partially due to lack of harmful processing/additives, and mostly due to not being lung-inhaled (where most of the health damage occurs).  Further up the scale is chewing and other oral use (frequency of use is typically greatly increased, outweighing the benefits of the non-inhalation method of consumption).  Then comes cigarettes, which are many, many orders of magnitude more dangerous.  No use of tobacco is risk free or "safe."  But all use is not the same.  Consuming only nicotine, however, is a totally different story.

Smoking marijuana is likely to have similar danger/risk factors as smoking cigarettes (on a per use basis), as would [lung] smoking just about anything.  The mitigating factors being it is usually consumed way less frequently and is less processed (additives, etc).  Consuming only the active ingredients in other ways (pills, food, vaping) would be hugely less risky. 

Quote
Now I still have issues with people, that say "i never smoked pot, never drank" spouting off on the perceived conceptions in the mind they have, about what is right for everyone.

Again, I hope you are not referring to me, otherwise, you didn't at all read what I wrote. I specifically said "I believe people should be allowed to do anything to or put anything they wish into their bodies- as long as they can give informed consent, it isn't directly harming others, and they are adults."   Leading me, again, to ask if you are involved in another straw man argument.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline gPink

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Re: Weed
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2020, 07:36:20 am »
max, I wonder if you are naive or just uninformed about the addictive qualities of nicotine? Do a bit of research on the relationship and interactions of nicotine and opioids.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Weed
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2020, 08:54:38 am »
max, I wonder if you are naive or just uninformed about the addictive qualities of nicotine? Do a bit of research on the relationship and interactions of nicotine and opioids.

I have researched this stuff far more than you would likely believe.  What exactly did I say that makes you think I am uninformed about or "naive"?

Nicotine is not very harmful, and can be very addictive, depending on the individual, and method, speed, and frequency of use.  The harmful part of tobacco use is not nicotine, it is most of the other chemicals consumed, especially when combusted, and most especially if inhaled into the lungs.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Weed
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2020, 09:14:34 am »
New Year guys....let's not let this degenerate into something I need to lock.  Happy New Year.
"LOCTITE┬«"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! 2008 C14 Moved on to a new home, 2016 RM traded in.

Offline gPink

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Re: Weed
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2020, 11:00:47 am »
I have researched this stuff far more than you would likely believe.  What exactly did I say that makes you think I am uninformed about or "naive"?

Nicotine is not very harmful, and can be very addictive, depending on the individual, and method, speed, and frequency of use.  The harmful part of tobacco use is not nicotine, it is most of the other chemicals consumed, especially when combusted, and most especially if inhaled into the lungs.

"Nicotine is not very harmful, and can be very addictive." This statement is in itself  makes me think you are confused.

From your reply #4... " Control is important to me and I have no desire to ever be "altered." If you are addicted you are not in control. Is this not harmful by your self-imposed standards?

@Jim... just a discussion...Happy New Year to all.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Weed
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2020, 02:28:35 pm »
"Nicotine is not very harmful, and can be very addictive." This statement is in itself  makes me think you are confused.  From your reply #4... " Control is important to me and I have no desire to ever be "altered." If you are addicted you are not in control. Is this not harmful by your self-imposed standards?

Ah, then it is just semantics.  Interesting angle, though.  When I said "harmful", I was talking about harmful to health, and nothing else.  I don't consider addiction, itself (more properly thought of as "dependence") as harmful.  Asserting it is would be more of a moral position.  There is evidence to support that some athletes become "addicted" to exercise, for example.  Dependence can lead to destructive behaviors (like exercising to the point of causing damage to joints and such), but that isn't the same thing as itself causing the damage.  It is why I used the example of caffeine- it is also addictive, but in and of itself, not very harmful.  Nicotine dependence can be satisfied without the harmful effects that tobacco impose.

But linking it back to my personal desire to maintain control is a good observation.  Again, I wasn't talking about control from addiction, but control of my mental perception of reality from being altered.  Thus, I have no desire to want to get or be "high", ever, regardless of if a substance is addictive or not.  But that is my own moral standard, not one I would impose/enforce on anyone else.

Unfortunately, the human brain is very able (and some might even say "eager") to become addicted to/dependent on many different chemicals (some as outcomes from behaviors).

Quote
@Jim... just a discussion...Happy New Year to all.

Indeed!
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc