Author Topic: Weed  (Read 1196 times)

Offline gPink

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Re: Weed
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2020, 03:20:37 pm »

Ah, then it is just semantics.  Interesting angle, though.  When I said "harmful", I was talking about harmful to health, and nothing else.  I don't consider addiction, itself (more properly thought of as "dependence") as harmful.  Asserting it is would be more of a moral position.  There is evidence to support that some athletes become "addicted" to exercise, for example.  Dependence can lead to destructive behaviors (like exercising to the point of causing damage to joints and such), but that isn't the same thing as itself causing the damage.  It is why I used the example of caffeine- it is also addictive, but in and of itself, not very harmful.  Nicotine dependence can be satisfied without the harmful effects that tobacco impose.

But linking it back to my personal desire to maintain control is a good observation.  Again, I wasn't talking about control from addiction, but control of my mental perception of reality from being altered.  Thus, I have no desire to want to get or be "high", ever, regardless of if a substance is addictive or not.  But that is my own moral standard, not one I would impose/enforce on anyone else.

Unfortunately, the human brain is very able (and some might even say "eager") to become addicted to/dependent on many different chemicals (some as outcomes from behaviors).

Indeed!

So you don't consider mental health and physical health intrinsically bound?
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Weed
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2020, 04:44:21 pm »
So you don't consider mental health and physical health intrinsically bound?

Deep!  Yes, there is a relation.  But it is difficult to objectify and quantify "mental" health, especially in such cases.  Mental health can have many other co-factors and casual relations that link back through time.  And what one person might consider healthy, another might consider unhealthy, and conditions can vary wildly.   This is why many don't consider psychology a "science" like physical health branches.  The mind is the ultimate complexity.  I don't believe negative mental health can cause negative physical health, though.  But it can lead to making poor choices that, themselves, cause physical harm.

Along the same lines- my mother believes that a positive attitude causes good things to happen.  I agreed with some qualifications.  It isn't the positive attitude that causes good things to happen, but having a positive attitude leads to better problem solving, better social interactions, more resiliency, and other things that, themselves, lead to more positive outcomes.  She means it in more of a direct/spiritual way, as if the positivity physically changes the universe around you in some way.  I won't go for that :)  I tend to put a more pragmatic view on "karma."

Here is an interesting counter-question: is being "high" (chemically mentally altered) damaging to mental health (in and of itself)?  Not an easy question to answer.  I would say "it depends" and/or "possibly" because it is too broad of a question.
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Offline Boomer

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Re: Weed
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2020, 06:57:57 am »
I have friends in their 40's, 50's and 60's who have toked nearly every day for all their adult lives and have no mental issues. They hold down jobs, pay their rent, and are functioning adults.
I know quite a few ex-friends in their 40's, 50's and 60's who do the same but expect the world to provide for them, and will use and abuse those around them to get what they want.
I classify the first as friends and the second as assholes. Whether people toke or not seems to be irrelevant. Assholes are assholes.

On the other hand, 2 of my best friends got themselves addicted to coke and both ended up taking their own lives due to the effect the drug had on their perceptions of reality. One left behind a (separated) wife and 3 children, the other a wife and 4 children.

In my experience, weed makes assholes worse, but has no long term effect on decent people.
Coke makes good, loving, caring people so f**ked up that they end up killing themselves.

Me, I stopped taking any drug other than occasional hit of alcohol over 15 years ago, and have even beaten my nicotine habit now.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Weed
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2020, 07:50:04 am »
Very well said indeed!
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Weed
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2020, 08:06:44 am »
I have friends in their 40's, 50's and 60's who have toked nearly every day for all their adult lives and have no mental issues. They hold down jobs, pay their rent, and are functioning adults.
I know quite a few ex-friends in their 40's, 50's and 60's who do the same but expect the world to provide for them, and will use and abuse those around them to get what they want.
I classify the first as friends and the second as assholes. Whether people toke or not seems to be irrelevant. Assholes are assholes.

On the other hand, 2 of my best friends got themselves addicted to coke and both ended up taking their own lives due to the effect the drug had on their perceptions of reality. One left behind a (separated) wife and 3 children, the other a wife and 4 children.

In my experience, weed makes assholes worse, but has no long term effect on decent people.
Coke makes good, loving, caring people so f**ked up that they end up killing themselves.

Me, I stopped taking any drug other than occasional hit of alcohol over 15 years ago, and have even beaten my nicotine habit now.
My drug of choice now is adrenaline with a side of dopamine every so often. Most call it motorcycling  ;D

Assholes are assholes, no matter what.

My experience matches yours. If you're an asshole and you smoke weed, you're just an asshole who is now high. If you're an asshole and you're drunk, well, you get the idea.

BUT, in my experience folks who smoke weed do not undergo a personality change as a result of being high. Unlike some people when they drink booze. I'm sure that you all know THAT PERSON who, when drinking, turns into a belligerent asshole, right? My brother is like that but only when he's been drinking rum. If he's been drinking rum, stay out of his face. Better yet, it's time to leave.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Weed
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2020, 03:16:31 pm »
My experience matches yours. If you're an asshole and you smoke weed, you're just an asshole who is now high. If you're an asshole and you're drunk, well, you get the idea.

That does seem to match my observations, also.

Quote
BUT, in my experience folks who smoke weed do not undergo a personality change as a result of being high. Unlike some people when they drink booze. I'm sure that you all know THAT PERSON who, when drinking, turns into a belligerent asshole, right?

Actually, yes.  My family (both sides) has a long history with alcoholism.  Which is one of many reasons I have never consumed alcohol.  My mother, when she drinks, gets belligerent, rude, loud, and says whatever is on her mind (which is usually hurtful).  One friend of mine is exactly like my Mom when she drinks.  Another friend of mine, he actually gets giddy and quiet, and MORE agreeable.  Someone else I knew got violent.  Everyone seems to get stupid and uncoordinated, though (I really do not enjoy being around people drinking beyond a very small amount).

I don't have much experience being around people high on marijuana, but from what I have seen, people appear to be just slow, silly, and generally stupid, pretty equally.  Never rude or belligerent.
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Offline gPink

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Re: Weed
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2020, 04:57:42 pm »
That does seem to match my observations, also.

Actually, yes.  My family (both sides) has a long history with alcoholism.  Which is one of many reasons I have never consumed alcohol.  My mother, when she drinks, gets belligerent, rude, loud, and says whatever is on her mind (which is usually hurtful).  One friend of mine is exactly like my Mom when she drinks.  Another friend of mine, he actually gets giddy and quiet, and MORE agreeable.  Someone else I knew got violent.  Everyone seems to get stupid and uncoordinated, though (I really do not enjoy being around people drinking beyond a very small amount).

I don't have much experience being around people high on marijuana, but from what I have seen, people appear to be just slow, silly, and generally stupid, pretty equally.  Never rude or belligerent.

Would this not be a personality change or maybe just exposes a person as they truly are?
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Weed
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2020, 07:08:21 am »
That does seem to match my observations, also.

Actually, yes.  My family (both sides) has a long history with alcoholism.  Which is one of many reasons I have never consumed alcohol.  My mother, when she drinks, gets belligerent, rude, loud, and says whatever is on her mind (which is usually hurtful).  One friend of mine is exactly like my Mom when she drinks.  Another friend of mine, he actually gets giddy and quiet, and MORE agreeable.  Someone else I knew got violent.  Everyone seems to get stupid and uncoordinated, though (I really do not enjoy being around people drinking beyond a very small amount).

I don't have much experience being around people high on marijuana, but from what I have seen, people appear to be just slow, silly, and generally stupid, pretty equally.  Never rude or belligerent.

There's a HUGE difference between the way some people act when they're high vs the way some act when they're drunk.

You will never hear of someone smoking a bunch of weed (only) and then beating up their wife and/or their kids. Booze is a different story altogether.   
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Weed
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2020, 07:10:14 am »
Would this not be a personality change or maybe just exposes a person as they truly are?

Yeah, that makes total sense G. Their true personality is hidden away till they get high? I think that maybe you had better try some yourself and see...
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Weed
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2020, 11:22:02 am »
Actually it could be both.  As none of us here are researchers into that kind of thing it would be difficult to speculate how alcohol or drugs affect personalities.  I've seen perfectly good intelligent people turn into complete aholes after drinking.  Can't say I've seen that with MJ, though.  Could affect different areas of the brane.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Weed
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2020, 02:27:54 pm »
.  Could affect different areas of the brane.

 8)
That is correct.... alcohol directly seeks the part of the brain, where "aggression" lives, the pre-frontal lobes... where the "decision making" as to be violent, or passive (again, I say "decision") comes from... so the signals from the Amygdala to the lobe, are "hyper exaggerated"...
THC does "it's thing", mid brain, and associated receptors mainly, and "buffers", or reduces the hyper effects, slowing down the nuro transmitting, so violence is not an outcome, and the brain's happy zones (Hypothalamus) can abound, (dopamine, and Oxytocin, and Vasopressin)
PFL's and ElectroShock therapy was the "common" cure for aggressive behavior in institutions 50 years ago..  :'( :'(

https://www.quora.com/What-part-of-the-brain-controls-emotions-and-how

« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 03:00:43 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline gPink

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Re: Weed
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2020, 02:53:35 pm »
Yeah, that makes total sense G. Their true personality is hidden away till they get high? I think that maybe you had better try some yourself and see...
Conrad, you have no idea who I am, where I've been, what I've done or not done in life but here you are deciding what you believe would be in my best interest. Typical. If you want to smoke dope, do heroin, drink yourself in oblivion knock yourself out but your sanctimonious attitude wearing thin.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Weed
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2020, 03:04:27 pm »
let's play nice, I find this discussion very interesting... mellowwwwww....

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Offline Conrad

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Re: Weed
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2020, 07:07:14 am »
That does seem to match my observations, also.

Actually, yes.  My family (both sides) has a long history with alcoholism.  Which is one of many reasons I have never consumed alcohol.  My mother, when she drinks, gets belligerent, rude, loud, and says whatever is on her mind (which is usually hurtful).  One friend of mine is exactly like my Mom when she drinks.  Another friend of mine, he actually gets giddy and quiet, and MORE agreeable.  Someone else I knew got violent.  Everyone seems to get stupid and uncoordinated, though (I really do not enjoy being around people drinking beyond a very small amount).

I don't have much experience being around people high on marijuana, but from what I have seen, people appear to be just slow, silly, and generally stupid, pretty equally.  Never rude or belligerent.

Would this not be a personality change or maybe just exposes a person as they truly are?

Yeah, that makes total sense G. Their true personality is hidden away till they get high? I think that maybe you had better try some yourself and see...

Conrad, you have no idea who I am, where I've been, what I've done or not done in life but here you are deciding what you believe would be in my best interest. Typical. If you want to smoke dope, do heroin, drink yourself in oblivion knock yourself out but your sanctimonious attitude wearing thin.

Are you replying to what I wrote above or to something else? I'm a bit confused because of your overaction. Where did I imply that I knew who you are, where you've been, or what you've done or not done in your life? And just how in the hell do you come up with thinking that I'm trying to decide what's in your best interest?

From this? "Yeah, that makes total sense G. Their true personality is hidden away till they get high? I think that maybe you had better try some yourself and see..."   :o
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Weed
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2020, 07:21:00 am »
Are you replying to what I wrote above or to something else?

Same thing I was asking MOB, earlier.  I was (still am) confused.

Quote
From this? "Yeah, that makes total sense G. Their true personality is hidden away till they get high? I think that maybe you had better try some yourself and see..."   :o

Well, that won't work.  Can't exactly observe one's own personality when reason is altered.  Might as well ask someone blindfolded to describe a unknown photograph.  That is one problem with all mind-altering drugs (of which alcohol very much is one)- most users users simply have no grasp as to how altered or incapacitated they are.  It is through sober observation of others, and outcomes, that such realizations can be made.

I made a logical argument with someone, before- so exactly what is "drunk"?  At what point of being altered does it pass from non-drunk to drunk (as if there is some line in the sand)?  He couldn't answer that question in any reasonable way.
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