Author Topic: Weed  (Read 1195 times)

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Weed
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2020, 07:44:02 am »
Oooh, ooooh, this is really getting good now..


Drunk


adjective. [/size]being[/color][/size] in a temporary state in which one's physical and mental faculties are impaired by an excess of alcoholic drink; intoxicated: The wine made him [/color][/size]drunk[/color][/size]. overcome or dominated by a strong feeling or emotion: [/color][/size]drunk[/color][/size] with power; [/color][/size]drunk[/color][/size] with joy.[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]Personally I think impairment starts with the first drink regardless of what the drinker thinks, at least with me it does.[/color]
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Weed
« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2020, 09:27:12 am »
"in a temporary state in which one's physical and mental faculties are impaired by an excess of alcoholic drink"

Dictionaries often use words that are not concrete to define other words that are not concrete.  In this case the word "excess" is key.  If we can't define at what point drunk is, how do we define what "excess" is?

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Personally I think impairment starts with the first drink regardless of what the drinker thinks, at least with me it does.

It does.  I tend to think the word "drunk" is pretty much meaningless for many purposes.
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Weed
« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2020, 09:37:58 am »
drunk

VERB
past participle of drink.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Weed
« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2020, 10:25:14 am »
I was going to add more to that post but something shiny caught my eye and my concentration wavered and left..


I think drunk is in the eye of the breathalyzer.  My version of drunk is that my wife has to drive me home or the room is spinning around when I try to go to sleep.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Weed
« Reply #49 on: January 04, 2020, 01:05:56 pm »
I think drunk is in the eye of the breathalyzer.

Even that isn't very meaningful.  Like with all drugs, people react differently to them and they can build tolerance.  So an [estimated] blood concentration [based on exhaled gases] doesn't really measure actual impairment.  What might be trashed for one person might be only mild for someone else.  Ironically, field sobriety tests, although subjective, are more meaningful in that regard.  What is really needed is an objective measurement of actual impairment- perhaps a standardized machine that can measure hand-eye coordination and reaction time.  That also means it would be useful no matter what the drug or situation.

Quote
My version of drunk is[...] the room is spinning around when I try to go to sleep.

Since I have vertigo (BPPV), I can experience that with no drug needed, assuming the crystals in my inner ear decide to be in the wrong place.  Thank God for the Epley maneuver.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Weed
« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2020, 05:26:44 pm »
"Drunk" is usually defined by the what the person in question is doing.... such as driving. Or at least the consequences of 'being drunk'. And of course, the numbers are rather arbitrary but hey, they have to set the line somewhere. Drunk driving in the US is usually defined as 0.08% blood alcohol content, unless one possesses a commercial driver's license (CDL), at which point drunk occurs at 0.04% BAL (even if driving a regular car that does NOT require a CDL in the first place). The FAA claims that a commercial pilot is drunk also at 0.04% but adds the additional restriction that the pilot cannot have consumed ANY alcohol w/in the 8 hours before going on duty (not actually flying).

As I said, someone has to set a somewhat arbitrary line somewhere that hopefully makes sense. And it all depends on what society (or at least those setting the rules) whats to define and how draconian they are- after all, one could make a reasonably valid argument that one should not operate machinery, perform surgery, etc., etc. with any detectable amount of a debilitating substance in him / her. I am not suggesting that, merely saying that it could be reasonably be argued as a rational position.

Honestly, at this time, I believe cell phones and young people having little- to- no respect for or awareness of their surrounds while driving poses a bigger problem than probably all the state altering drugs of all types in drivers. It is frankly amazing to me to watch how cavalier some young people, and it seems to be more females than males in my own observations, drive as though they were the only ones in the world to do so- honestly, doing 40+ MPH in a parking lot, between rows of cars and pedestrians...... how did you think that was going to turn out?

Gallagher had it right decades ago: the manufactures of cars should take the airbag out from the driver's steering wheel and replace it with a machete. It would not solve the problem but it would assure the major damage almost always arrives in the correct location.  ;D but only sorta'

Brian


<snip>

I think drunk is in the eye of the breathalyzer.

<snip>

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Offline Rick Hall

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Re: Weed
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2020, 08:25:00 pm »
...
The FAA claims that a commercial pilot is drunk also at 0.04% but adds the additional restriction that the pilot cannot have consumed ANY alcohol w/in the 8 hours before going on duty (not actually flying).

Mostly correct, except that it's any licensed pilot. Or any licensed pilot with a current medical. Or any licensed pilot with a current medical, and/or any required flight crew member. Three basic groups of pilots. Private (me), Commercial (can fly for compensation), ATP (the big iron guys and gals)

Further, any required crew member can refuse carriage of any passenger for any reason that may compromise safety of flight. Sounds simple and prudent; but there have been "administrative reviews", and loss of pilot privileges. Let's say someone sparked a fat one, got the munchies, went to the kitchen to grab a bag of Cheetos. On the way, fell and broke both legs and an arm. EMT arrives in 7 minutes, "Flight for Life" requested. Chopper pilot lands, says nope, patient is in a state of diminished mental capacity. Haul him/her off the mountain in an ox cart.

It HAS happened, but now these patients have to be under care of a flight surgeon or nurse, and reasonable procedures have to be in place to prevent the zonie from interfering with the flight.

Which begs the question, how did Keith Richards or Joe Cocker ever get on a plane?

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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Weed
« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2020, 07:22:06 am »
They probably flew in 'private' aircraft for the most part.  But then again, in the past it wasn't under the scrutiny that is present now.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Weed
« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2020, 01:30:37 pm »
Well, my point was (is) that there are basically arbitrary rules set because we need a solid, definable, repeatable and testable line or quantity for society to function well. Or at least reasonably well.

Just like speed limits: why 60 MPH and not 65 MPH? No reason really, but again someone or some agency had to choose an absolute number to eliminate the endless arguments in court as to the definition of speeding or every single case of DUI would be an open- ended debate about exactly what 'drunk' is.

Back to the topic: I do have a question though.... is there even a threshold for the level of cannabis consumption or it is simply any amount with an LEO claiming the driver is 'impaired'?

Brian

Mostly correct, except that it's any licensed pilot. Or any licensed pilot with a current medical. Or any licensed pilot with a current medical, and/or any required flight crew member. Three basic groups of pilots. Private (me), Commercial (can fly for compensation), ATP (the big iron guys and gals)

<snip>

Rick
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Weed
« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2020, 03:26:37 pm »
Well, my point was (is) that there are basically arbitrary rules set because we need a solid, definable, repeatable and testable line or quantity for society to function well. Or at least reasonably well.


Back to the topic: I do have a question though.... is there even a threshold for the level of cannabis consumption or it is simply any amount with an LEO claiming the driver is 'impaired'?

Brian

Yes.
Each state that has entered into the "legality" zone, and sets the limit, of what is "considered" influenced.. just like alcohol in some respects;  I have to check Ohio, but I did see "figures" noted when I looked at Illinois, and also Canada statutes.
it varies by state (or country/province, i.e. Canada), but is measured in nanograms/ microlitre of blood (or urine),at the time of "suspicion",  and companies are now trying to "create" a reliable breath test...(good luck with that one..), so physical blood (urine) tests are required.

update, here is Ohio's
https://norml.org/legal/item/ohio-drugged-driving

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Offline Boomer

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Re: Weed
« Reply #55 on: January 06, 2020, 03:37:01 am »
In the UK we get a breath test at the side of the road.
If you blow more than 35 microgrammes per 100 millilitres of breath, then you get a free ride to the Police station where they either use a calibrated, certified breath-test, or you can opt for a blood test (80 milligrammes of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood).
Once confirmed as over the limit you are considered to be driving impaired and are instantly banned from driving. Once it goes to court, depending on the circumstances and how drunk you were, the driving ban will be extended to 12 months (minimum) and can be extended up to 5 years. You will almost certainly also get a large fine and could get time in jail if anyone got hurt, or if it's not your first DWI.

The law doesn't care if you have developed a tolerance or not, nor does it care if you were actually impaired or not.
You should not be drinking AT ALL prior to driving.
The only reason for the 80mg minimum is that some people can have a naturally high blood alcohol level.

In the EU the limit is 50 milligrammes of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood.
The penalties vary from country to country, but some give a 1 year driving ban on 1st offence and a lifetime driving ban on a 2nd offence.

I don't know the guidelines for drug-driving, but they are AT LEAST as stringent as those for drink-driving.
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Weed
« Reply #56 on: January 16, 2020, 10:58:24 am »
Tried to get some weed from my normal source, my buddy who has a medical card. He's at the medical dispensary right at this moment. Sold out of flower! 

It figures. Illinois makes weed legal for recreational use and now medical patients can't get any. This is the first time in years that I wanted to get some and was unable to do so.

And no, I'm not going to drive for 45 minutes and then wait in a line for two hours at the recreational weed dispensary. Oh well.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Weed
« Reply #57 on: January 16, 2020, 01:05:05 pm »
Tried to get some weed from my normal source, my buddy who has a medical card. He's at the medical dispensary right at this moment. Sold out of flower! 

It figures. Illinois makes weed legal for recreational use and now medical patients can't get any. This is the first time in years that I wanted to get some and was unable to do so.

And no, I'm not going to drive for 45 minutes and then wait in a line for two hours at the recreational weed dispensary. Oh well.


hehehehh
yeah, I figured that would happen, just as I say happened here....

Interesting discussion,
Ohio has finally given the green light to Medical use, which requires a doctor to apply for a card for patient use, and the clinics are open and operating here, for the last year. Problem was, the "supply" was regulated, and had to come from in state sources/growers, that were licensed... well, that created a long backlog to build a supply. A couple years back, Ohio "tried" to push thru a total decriminalization bill, so to cover both medical, and recreational use; that didn't work because the jist of the bill created an oligarchy of business people, with deep pockets, that controlled the grow houses. Again, they had to be state approved, and licensed.

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Offline FTB530

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Re: Weed
« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2020, 06:55:17 pm »
I have been there!