Author Topic: C10 EFI Project  (Read 1629 times)

Offline sport rider

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2020, 08:13:18 am »
Very nice!  I can relate to the enthusiasm.   :thumbs:

Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2020, 09:18:30 am »
It's been cold the past few days so I took the time to look up the parts I had purchased to get an idea of all I have spent.
It is not exactly cheap but my expenditures were spread out over the past year so it really did not feel that expensive a little each month.
I actually had a lot more invested in the development tools and experiments that did not yield fruit. But to replicate it I think I can do it cheaper a second time.
If I had been a more frugal ebay shopper I could have done better.   

Most of the expense was in the ECU and the wide band controller, with the rest being $5 here, $10 there, it all adds up.
2 Connies, 2 Magnas, 1 Yamaha Vstar 950 Touring.
https://motostuff.shutterfly.com/pictures

Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2020, 08:40:45 am »
Here are most of the steps I went through starting in August.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9ZAieLe6zon1TuzB_mU4w5h5qqh5WuXQ

I didn't video the mods I made to the gas tank.  But it is necessary to drill out the vent pipe that exits just under the gas cap. The gas cap will need to be removed to get access the the vent. I drill strait down and at an angle toward the front of the tank. This will allow gas returned from the fuel pressure regulator to circulate through the tank.  Also I drilled a 2mm hole on the opposite side to allow pressure build-up to escape the tank.  Sorry no video or photos.

And this is worth watching. But you must turn on the sound.  https://www.facebook.com/202314740312386/videos/572135050032021/
2 Connies, 2 Magnas, 1 Yamaha Vstar 950 Touring.
https://motostuff.shutterfly.com/pictures

Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2020, 04:40:54 pm »
Third time out with tuner studio in auto tune. Each time it gets better.  When ever if hits a bad spot on the throttle I just hold it there for a few seconds and soon it is pulling strong again. Tuner studio is worth every penny.   Trying to ride at all different speeds in all gears and under differing loads. Cant do all that in my neighborhood.  Not much left to do since it is running well. Still a little stubborn when starting but it will start after a few seconds of cranking.

Each time I go for a ride it gets better than the last time. Its about time I headed out on the highway. But first I need to tighten down the rear view mirrors. And  calibrate the speedometer (it seems to be off by about a third). some weird formula, =1000/ (wheel circumference in meters/2) or something like that. Also need to adjust the camera so it is looking at something besides the front tire.
 https://youtu.be/NfqR8AeMjg4
2 Connies, 2 Magnas, 1 Yamaha Vstar 950 Touring.
https://motostuff.shutterfly.com/pictures

Offline connie_rider

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2020, 09:48:57 am »
Seems that your making great progress.

I know your not done, but have questions.

1) If you sharply twist the throttle how sharp is the response?
      MY stock C-10 is not as sharp as my C-14. Think this is partially due to be carbureted.
      Wondering if EFI will make the initial response sharper.
2) Does your controls monitor and adjust for changes in altitude or barometric pressure?
      Mixture will have to change as air density changes.

Ride safe, Ted

Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2020, 07:06:55 pm »
There is a programmable throttle enrichment value. It is a curve that adds more fuel based on the rate of change of the throttle position. This is measured in %/second, with higher values representing faster twists of the throttle and values in the range 50%/s to 1000%/s are normal.
Eg:
100%/s = pressing the throttle from 0% to 100% in 1 second
1000%/s = pressing the throttle from 0% to 100% in 0.1s

TPSdot forms the X axis of the acceleration curve, with the Y axis value representing the % increase in fuel.
The tuning software allows you to adjust the different points on the curve to suit your engine.  In the tool shown in the photo the software allows you to pick points on the curve and move them higher or lower depending on how you want acceleration enrichment to behave.

I am using the default on mine and it seem to e very responsive. I have not played with the curve yet, so perhaps I can make it even more responsive.

At the moment the software only takes a barometer reading at key on. It then uses the map pressure to determine the engine load.  Since it only has one map sensor it cannot make barometer measurements while the engine is running. It only takes the measurement once per key cycle. This is adequate if you plan to drive across states like Kansas or Nebraska. But if your are going to cross the Rockies you probably need to stop every once and a while and cycle the power.  There are plans for a second barometer sensor but it has not been implemented yet.

PS. took my bike out on a tuning ride again today and it ran great for a while the it got temperamental.  slow to get up to speed and bogged down on WOT. I kept driving around hoping that auto-tune would work it out but it just kept getting worse.  I limped home and after I parked it noticed the AFR was showing it running very lean.  Then I noticed the fuel pressure showed about half of what it normally reads. Then I realized it was running on an empty tank! All the engine was getting was air mixed with what ever fuel was splashing around in the tank.  So now that it has a full tank and plenty of pressure it is running too rich. I need to re-tune to un-do what auto-tune did to correct for running out of gas.  So today was a washout. But tomorrow is going to be a warm 57 degrees.
2 Connies, 2 Magnas, 1 Yamaha Vstar 950 Touring.
https://motostuff.shutterfly.com/pictures

Offline connie_rider

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2020, 08:56:21 am »
Ok, thanks for the information.
Seems your getting there.....

Ride safe, Ted

Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2020, 03:02:26 pm »
Connie_rider,

Took it out again today. Longest ride so far. You asked is the throttle responsive when twisted hard.  Rolling at about 20 MPH I got the front wheel off the ground by goosing the throttle. I am very happy with the way this has turned out. I managed to un-do the bad tuning I did yesterday while running on an empty tank.  Acceleration it good in all gears. First time ever got int 5th and 6th gears. I still have trouble with cold starts and 1st gear at low speeds but everything else looks good to me.  looks like my cheap aftermarket speeduino died just as I arrived home. I need to go check on that.

Made a 20 minute video. it is uploading now. youtube says it will be an hour before it is processed. https://youtu.be/M8fvjvZv_z4
2 Connies, 2 Magnas, 1 Yamaha Vstar 950 Touring.
https://motostuff.shutterfly.com/pictures

Offline connie_rider

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2020, 04:27:27 pm »
Yahoo. More progress..
I like your music, but couldn't hear the motor. Have you done any hard accells thru a few gears?

Ride safe, Ted

Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2020, 05:43:01 pm »
Yahoo. More progress..
I like your music, but couldn't hear the motor. Have you done any hard accells thru a few gears?

Ride safe, Ted
Hard excel in 1,2,3rd. By then I am over the speed limit and shut it down. Ill try that out on the back rode and let you know.   As for the music, you cant hear the motor real well anyway because of the wind noise on the camera. I am thinking of putting another recorder inside my helmet and overdub the audio when i am done.
2 Connies, 2 Magnas, 1 Yamaha Vstar 950 Touring.
https://motostuff.shutterfly.com/pictures

Offline sport rider

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2020, 08:20:47 am »
I'm really wanting this for my cafe project.   :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2020, 11:32:34 am »
I'm really wanting this for my cafe project.   :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

The only things unique about my implementation is the crankshaft sprocket and the position sensor. Everything else you can get from several sources. Mostly eBay, Craig's list, and amazon.

If you decide to go down the path I can share with you where I got everything and give you the crankshaft sensor and sprocket at my cost.
I will also share my "tune" settings with you but they probably won't be optimum for you since I live at 5000 feet and I would bet the air is denser where you live. But it will be enough to get started and if you use the auto tune feature of tuner studio it should be an easy chore to get it the way you like it.

It is a tedious project full of opportunities to mess up. Your vocabulary of 4 letter words will increase exponentially.  But it was a fun project and I feel a sense of accomplishment. 

It's road worthy now and for a while I will just be doing tweaks to the tuning. Then what? It's not awesome but I am proud of it.  I'm not sure I will keep it. I have short legs and I find this and my other Connie difficult to ride.  I have  lowering links for my other Connie and i've got  my Yamaha V-Star which I love..  I suspect this will be parked most of the time. 
2 Connies, 2 Magnas, 1 Yamaha Vstar 950 Touring.
https://motostuff.shutterfly.com/pictures

Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2020, 06:34:34 pm »
Connie_Rider.

I just saw that a second barometer feature has been added to the software. If you are going to ride around locally you dont need it but, If you want to cross several states or climb mountains you can add a second barometer sensor to your bike and it operates like this.

The logic is (in this order):
If external baro sensor is enabled, use it (And update approx. every 1 second)
If external baro is disabled, make a reading on startup and check whether it’s within sane limits. If it is, this value is saved in EEPROM and used until the system is switched off
If the startup reading was outside of the valid range (Can occur if the engine is already running for example), then check the last baro value that was saved in EEPROM.
Finally if that value in EEPROM was outside the valid range, default to 100kPa (sea level).
2 Connies, 2 Magnas, 1 Yamaha Vstar 950 Touring.
https://motostuff.shutterfly.com/pictures

Offline connie_rider

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2020, 08:46:56 am »
Ok, thanx.
I'm not going to install one of these.
I ride the C-14 most of the time and the C-10 is a spare/loaner.
  & I'm happy e'nuff with the carbs..
And admittedly; The electrical end is over my head..

I'm just interested in your project...

Ride safe, Ted

Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2020, 02:57:59 pm »
I was having a problem where the fuel injected into the carb would strike the back of the throttle plate and some would splash back and pool in the seam between the carb and the rubber boot to the air-box. Some of it was finding a way to drip out about 1 drop every 10 seconds.  I fitted the back of the carb with a mesh screen that atomizes the spray from the injector and there is no longer any splash-back.

The screen is awesome.  Took some videos with and without the screen and a slow motion with screen. Without the screen the injector is like a squirt gun. With the screen it looks like an air-freshener  aerosol spray.

No kidding with the screen inside the air-box boot, the bike was sucking in that vapor and actually trying to start  (no carb/throttle body) just 5 inches of air space.

https://youtu.be/2TxDRWqNi-k
2 Connies, 2 Magnas, 1 Yamaha Vstar 950 Touring.
https://motostuff.shutterfly.com/pictures