Author Topic: C10 EFI Project  (Read 7150 times)

Offline connie_rider

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #75 on: March 08, 2020, 08:39:31 am »
Sounds like your making more progress….
Keep swinging. You'll get the bugs knocked out.

Ride safe, Ted

Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #76 on: March 12, 2020, 01:21:20 pm »
The lowering rocker worked out well. That guy knew his geometry. It dropped the bike about an inch and a quarter.  I can now stand the bike up  straight without standing on my toes. Both feet on the ground. I feel much safer now. It could ba a half inch lower but for now I feel comfortable riding this.

The injectors I am using now came off a ZX14R and are a bit over-sized for this bike. They are preforming well but, I think that smaller injectors with a lower flow rate would be easier for the ECU to control and do fine adjustments to.

I have a set of injectors off a Kawasaki Z1000 that arrived the other day.

I am contemplating starting over with the small injectors to see what happens if anything.

Oh and I got some stick on decals that accent the tank.
2 Connies, 2 Magnas, 1 Yamaha Vstar 950 Touring.
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Offline Hooligan

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #77 on: March 13, 2020, 03:06:46 am »
This boney looks sweet man, great job :chugbeer: :chugbeer:
It is what it is....If not, it must be something else.
2012 K1600GT
2009 ZX14

Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #78 on: March 25, 2020, 10:01:14 pm »
I finally got some injectors for a 1000cc engine.   They came off a z1000. I also have the complete throttle bodies and fuel rail .

So I am thinking out loud here.....if i am going to change out the injectors then maybe use the z1000 throttle bodies as well.  If I hold the throttle bodies up to the head, the spacing is nearly perfect between 1-2 and between 3-4, however the gap between 2 -3 is different. I believe that if I put a small spacer between 2-3 I can make this fit.

Potential problem is if I increase the space between 2 -3 then it will probably screw up the linkage between them.



This is just me doing some thinking.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 08:48:23 am by gpineau »
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Offline sport rider

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #79 on: March 26, 2020, 07:32:36 am »
wish I had your skills!  I'll stick to fabrication.  :D

Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #80 on: March 27, 2020, 04:12:21 pm »
The reason I am contemplating changing the injectors is because at low speed first gear the bike is surging. Something like wanting to stall and wanting to race. This happens at minimum throttle, 5-10 MPH.  My hunch is that the injectors are about 40% to big for this motor and the ECU is having trouble providing the correct amount of fuel under these condition. Someone here characterized it as using a fire hose when only a garden hose is needed. Well its not that bad but it does make a difference. The bike runs great on the highway and anytime above 10 MPH. But I think the low end would be a more comfortable ride if I had injectors rated more closely to 1000cc engine. 

I have characterized the flow rate of the Z1000 injectors at 230cc/min That is more inline with the requirements of a 1000 cc motor.
The injector I am using now are 380 cc/min.  I think I will proceed with my plan to use the Z1000 throttle body.

I have also checked the secondary injectors.
So FYI
 injector (EAT250) 396 cc/min (RED)
 injector (EAT287) 380 cc/min (GREEN)
injector (25004Z9)  230 cc/min (ORANGE)
injector Secondary 219cc/min   (little black one)

All the measurements made at 43.5 psi.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 09:01:26 am by gpineau »
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Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #81 on: April 01, 2020, 09:36:44 pm »
Modifying a Z1000 Throttle body to fit on a ZG1000 concours.

The cylinder in-port spacing on the Z1000 is consistent from cylinder to cylinder.
But on a ZG1000 the spacing between 1 & 2 and 3 & 4 are the same however there is an addition 13 mm space between cylinders 2 and 3.

In order to make the throttle body from the Z1000 fit the Concours it is necessary to separate the two halves and insert 13 mm spacing between them.  This involves 12.5 mm spacers between the two halves and an extension of the fuel rail as well as an extension of the throttle linkage between the two halves.

https://youtu.be/nFgQnJeQ0mM
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 10:19:34 pm by gpineau »
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Offline sport rider

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #82 on: April 02, 2020, 09:24:41 am »
not such an easy task.... 

Offline connie_rider

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #83 on: April 02, 2020, 09:46:07 am »
Lookin' good Gpineau.
I like the way you solve at a problem.
ie; Break it down into multiple smaller issues, and then find a solution for each.

Couple of thoughts; {Ok, a few}
 1: Be sure the threads of the screw pass thru the nylon locking material. {on the nut inside your throttle body}
      {If that nut vibrates of, would be a baaaad day}
 2: Is the material you used to lengthen the throttle plate strong e'nuff?
 3: If you damage a C-10 intake boot, I have spares.
 4: With the new injector's will you be going back to an unmodified air box?
        {If so, I have one}

Ride safe, Ted

Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #84 on: April 02, 2020, 10:23:44 am »
Lookin' good Gpineau.
I like the way you solve at a problem.
ie; Break it down into multiple smaller issues, and then find a solution for each.

Couple of thoughts; {Ok, a few}
 1: Be sure the threads of the screw pass thru the nylon locking material. {on the nut inside your throttle body}
      {If that nut vibrates of, would be a baaaad day}
 2: Is the material you used to lengthen the throttle plate strong e'nuff?
 3: If you damage a C-10 intake boot, I have spares.
 4: With the new injector's will you be going back to an unmodified air box?
        {If so, I have one}

Ride safe, Ted
All good questions.
1. I did make sure the screw was long enough to pass through the nylon part of the nut. no chance it will vibrate off.  But if it ever did   :(

2.  Not sure what you mean. But i will guess your speak of the tab of metal I used to extend the linkage between the the two sets of throttle bodies. Actually the first thing I tried had too much spring to it and I could see that the first set would move slightly before the second set. The solution was a much stiffer steel and I bent a curve into it to increase its stiffness. So it is not flat anymore but is a little dish shaped along its length.  If there is a weak point in all this that would be it.

3.Thanks for  the offer. Hope I don't need them but I may take you up on it . I don't plan to cut all the way through the boot but to use a drimmel with a stone wheel to hollow out just enough material to allow the injector enough room for the spray to  fan out and a straight shot at the intake port.

4. I have some pod filters that I was thinking of using but the rear of the throttle bodies is not round. They are oval and wont easily mate with the filter pods. I did check  the rubber boot on the air-box and they can be stretched to fit the throttle bodies.  So..Yes I will disassemble the mods I made to the air-box and seal it back up and reuse it. There is a port on the bottom of the air-box to vent the crank case that i think is still useful. And the air box is where I mounted the intake air temperature sensor.

Being under a stay at home order makes for a lot of idle time to rethink some things and contemplate on how it could be done better.  I really think my original design works well and  changing to the smaller injectors would solve the issue of surging at low speed. But since I had the throttle body sitting right in front of me I said  "why not?" .   ( I actually purchased the injectors but they came with the throttle body attached...lol)
2 Connies, 2 Magnas, 1 Yamaha Vstar 950 Touring.
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Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #85 on: April 02, 2020, 10:34:09 am »
not such an easy task....

In my opinion, none of this was easy but I am having a blast.! Edwards Deming is my hero...."continuous improvement".

Whats easier? modifying a throttle body or cutting up an air-box and mounting injectors inside? Easy is relative.

Your bike is looking good.  You know that beautiful charcoal metal-flake paint job I did on my tank. I'm not sure what was up with the clear coat but I spilled some gasoline on it a week later and it literally melted off. I was heartbroken .  But the new burgundy looks good with the side panels.
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Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #86 on: April 02, 2020, 05:08:53 pm »
I think I have a solution for adapting the throttle body to the existing boots.

https://youtu.be/Jomnrn0MhEk

2 Connies, 2 Magnas, 1 Yamaha Vstar 950 Touring.
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Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #87 on: April 03, 2020, 12:18:49 pm »
Well, it fits..!
I don't have enough four letter words in my vocabulary to describe how difficult this was! Should have been a 30 min job but 4 hours later I finally got it.

Alignment is crucial. But the biggest obstacle was the coolant pipe that is attached to the rear of the head interferes with all 4 boots.  I ended up grinding the side of the boots that faces the coolant pipe nearly flat so I could get the boot on and force a clamp between them.

This is just a test for fit. I will need to construct an new air-box because the stock box will not fit any more without some modifications.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 01:57:12 pm by gpineau »
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #88 on: April 03, 2020, 03:15:51 pm »
Well done.
Suspecting the air box won't work because the throttle bodies are closer to the air box than the carbs?

Ride safe, Ted

Offline gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #89 on: April 03, 2020, 03:21:20 pm »
Well done.
Suspecting the air box won't work because the throttle bodies are closer to the air box than the carbs?

Ride safe, Ted
Your suspensions are right.  I am modifying the airbox now to see what part I can salvage.  It may require a whole new airbox.

And the throttle cables are too short. They need to be about 2 feet longer to cross over and come from underneath. replacements on order.


2 Connies, 2 Magnas, 1 Yamaha Vstar 950 Touring.
https://motostuff.shutterfly.com/pictures