Author Topic: Cam Sensor w/leaking O-ring help  (Read 588 times)

Offline JonnyQuest

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Cam Sensor w/leaking O-ring help
« on: February 06, 2020, 11:16:45 am »
Hey all, smelled & then noticed some seeping from the front of the engine, the cam sensor is oily. I’m guessing that it is this.  I went ahead & ordered an o-ring from Murph.

Can someone offer up advice, maybe tutorial on accessing and replacing the o-ring.  Lots of talk on the subject but not much on instructions, for us wannabe shade-trees.
Especially what needs to be removed (other than left side fairing) in order to access it.

Any & all help his greatly appreciated! 
Hey, if you’re anywhere near the north Florida area that has experience at this or valve covers, I can bring the bike to you and will gladly pay you!  I’d rather give to a worthy cause than a stealership.
Thanks!

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Cam Sensor w/leaking O-ring help
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2020, 04:45:42 pm »
I have to dig my tutorial out, it's buried somewhere, but if you don't have a lift, it really is a painful job, not really difficult, just painful to do crawling around on the floor...   I'm the guy that came up with that O-Ring you bought, so I know how it feels to work on it from the ground...  which I did purposely to see the difficulty factor.. (and, I actually had another bike on my lift at the time...) so as to get an idea of the "job" as most folks would have to go thru..   On a lift, I could complete it in an hour.. on the ground, double that time, plus some more.. (up / down / back and forth for wrenches and tools.. etc., )
pretty much all the plastic below the upper parting line, and up front, needs to be removed,  as they are all interconnected by tabs, and plastic rivets, and such, which are fragile somewhat, and cannot be "flexed"..  then the radiator lower bolts loosened, and top bolts removed, so the radiator (still with hoses attached) can be "rocked forward" and laid upon the front fender protected by rags, or cardboard. then you can access the bolt on the sensor, and disconnect the harness, and clean everything when it's removed, prior to installing the new tighter fitting o-ring.

You mention Northern Fla., our good and trusted friend Steve, is near you, and has done this a bunch of time, and I know he keeps a large supply of the MOB o-rings on hand...  he's a great mechanic, and knows this job well.. and can make short work of it for sure; BUT, he is recovering from some health issues, so I can't speak for him, or his schedule.. might want to use this post to contact him, his info is contained there...

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=20483.msg253672#msg253672

best of luck, 

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline Rubber_Snake

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Re: Cam Sensor w/leaking O-ring help
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2020, 05:36:05 pm »
Funny, I just did this job yesterday.  This is what I had to do for my ‘09...

1.  Take off all of the forward Tupperware.
2.  Disconnect left side fan plug wiring.
3.  Disconnect the two upper right small radiator hoses by the cap (be ready to catch a small amount of fluid with a cup or something)
4.  Support the radiator’s weight at the upper and lower hose connections with bungees to the handlebars.
5.  Unbolt the horn and move it out of the way.
6.  Unbolt the three radiator mounting bolts (two upper, one lower).
7.  I was able to lower the radiator without using towels to protect it, but it’s always safer to use something.  I rested the bottom of the radiator on the headers and the top of the radiator by bungees.  Be careful of the lower mounting bracket, it could potentially damage the radiator if you’re not careful.
8.  There are two brackets for the upper bolts that clip into a plastic inner fairing piece. I removed one of the plastics for reinstallation to make it easier.
9.  Unbolt the cam sensor (it will be covered in oil and dirtcake).
10.  While you’re at it. Tighten the header bolts.
11.  Replace the o-ring and reverse the steps. 

I have a before pic of my sensor, but with limited wifi, I can’t seem to upload it.  As MOB stated, this job is much easier with a lift, which I have and glad that I do.

Gary, take note...

I mean, Fartymarty, take note...
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 09:44:41 am by Rubber_Snake »
2009 GTR 1400 ABS, 48k miles, AMSOIL synthetic 10W-40 (since new), AMSOIL synthetic 75W-90 final drive (since new). Helibar Horizons, Oxford heated grips, V-Stream windscreen, Mountain Runner Flash, Brian’s low fuel eliminator farkle, ST2 smart brake module and smart turn system, Two Brothers Black Series M5 w/P1X decibel killer.

Offline Rubber_Snake

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Re: Cam Sensor w/leaking O-ring help
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2020, 05:43:01 pm »
Here’s the pic...
2009 GTR 1400 ABS, 48k miles, AMSOIL synthetic 10W-40 (since new), AMSOIL synthetic 75W-90 final drive (since new). Helibar Horizons, Oxford heated grips, V-Stream windscreen, Mountain Runner Flash, Brian’s low fuel eliminator farkle, ST2 smart brake module and smart turn system, Two Brothers Black Series M5 w/P1X decibel killer.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Cam Sensor w/leaking O-ring help
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2020, 06:57:24 pm »
I did get away with not disconnecting the radiator hoses.. , and got it leaned forward enough for full access, and cleaning, but then I really took a long time when I first did it, to take as many shortcuts as possible.. really didn't want to pull hoses... the top "clips" and fasteners for the radiator are confusing if you don't pay close attention when removing them also.. needed a third hand almost, to re position all.. but, got it done.  On a lift.. ez-pz

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline JonnyQuest

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Re: Cam Sensor w/leaking O-ring help
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2020, 07:43:19 pm »
MOB & Rubber Snake..you guys ROCK!
Thank you soo much for the very detailed tutorial.  Can almost play the repair in my head.  I did send Steve a message, as I also want him to do my ECU, if he feels up for it. 
I’m with you MOB, not wanting to pull hoses, I’ll end up with coolant coming out my exhaust.  That’s where I need some guidance and a pat on the back.

Offline JonnyQuest

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Re: Cam Sensor w/leaking O-ring help
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2020, 07:46:29 pm »
The oil seepage is minimal, just barely enough to smell when warming up from being cold.  Also, noticed some oil on the left front corner head gasket. 
I just bought it last week and believe it had been sitting for sometime.  It only has 7k miles. 

Offline maxtog

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Re: Cam Sensor w/leaking O-ring help
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2020, 07:52:58 pm »
The oil seepage is minimal, just barely enough to smell when warming up from being cold.

Well, it will get worse :)

It is a stupid flaw that it seems every Concours will develop at some point (on an otherwise very well designed and reliable bike).  And it is a pretty painful job to replace it.

Wait until you try a valve check/adjust...
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

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Re: Cam Sensor w/leaking O-ring help
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2020, 07:54:50 pm »
I did send Steve a message, as I also want him to do my ECU, if he feels up for it. 

Make sure to really drive/know the bike first.  Then you will really appreciate the flash :)
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Cam Sensor w/leaking O-ring help
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2020, 05:42:58 pm »
The oil seepage is minimal, just barely enough to smell when warming up from being cold.  Also, noticed some oil on the left front corner head gasket. 
I just bought it last week and believe it had been sitting for sometime.  It only has 7k miles.

It's really not a big deal, if it's the o-ring drip... you will never loose enough oil from that, to make any mechanical worry, it's just a drop or 2, when the bike sits, and is just an annoying thing to see the "puff" and smell it, when you start it after extended (a week or so) of sitting.. before I came up with / did the "solution", I put up with it for over 2 years.. and never once had any loss of oil, other than a few drops here and there.... so I just made sure to be "dressed, and ready to ride" when I started the bike, and took off as soon as it was running, just as a temporary stopgap measure, allowing it to burn off the header pipe fast, and in the airflow...  If I rode everyday, It never really was an issue. Only when it sat, would a drop or 2 end up on the header.

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline JonnyQuest

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Re: Cam Sensor w/leaking O-ring help
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2020, 06:19:26 pm »
It's really not a big deal, if it's the o-ring drip... you will never loose enough oil from that, to make any mechanical worry, it's just a drop or 2, when the bike sits, and is just an annoying thing to see the "puff" and smell it, when you start it after extended (a week or so) of sitting.. before I came up with / did the "solution", I put up with it for over 2 years.. and never once had any loss of oil, other than a few drops here and there.... so I just made sure to be "dressed, and ready to ride" when I started the bike, and took off as soon as it was running, just as a temporary stopgap measure, allowing it to burn off the header pipe fast, and in the airflow...  If I rode everyday, It never really was an issue. Only when it sat, would a drop or 2 end up on the header.

Thanks Man Of Blues.  I appreciate the comforting words.  Not worried mechanically over theses bikes, but it does really bother me that a japanese motorcycle with less than 10k miles leaks any kind of fluid. 
I reached out to Steve, but haven’t heard anything back.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Cam Sensor w/leaking O-ring help
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2020, 07:59:15 pm »
Thanks Man Of Blues.  I appreciate the comforting words.  Not worried mechanically over theses bikes, but it does really bother me that a japanese motorcycle with less than 10k miles leaks any kind of fluid. 
I reached out to Steve, but haven’t heard anything back.

All good. Don't loose sleep over it. When you do pull the sensor out, you will see that the o-ring as supplied, was never a "good choice" by Kaw, I've notified them of this issue years ago, they never changed it. The issue comes from an ill fitting O-ring, that "barely seals" as a part of a "non - pressurized" are of the bike (i.e. the cover is vented, the crank case is vented, there is really "no" pressure on the ring, but behind that sensor, is a "well" in the head, that holds oil.. and that well is not "drained" back down into the engine. After sitting, from hot cold engine, the oil will weep out, past the "barely compressed" o-ring.. sad.   as a Mechanical Engineer, well versed in Hydraulics, an o-ring static seal, does require about 10-20% compression, to effectively seal, when I measured the o-ring, the sensor groove, and also the recess bore, I found the compression to be in the 3-5% compression range, therefore the issue was clear... best of luck, I know the Murph/MOB ring will fix'r up just fine.

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline fartymarty

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Re: Cam Sensor w/leaking O-ring help
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2020, 12:17:01 pm »
I mean, Fartymarty, take note...

Note taken! Thanks R_S!  8) :finger_fing11: