Author Topic: Brakes...these brakes!  (Read 731 times)

Offline JonnyQuest

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Brakes...these brakes!
« on: February 07, 2020, 11:01:58 am »
Ok, this new (to me) 2012 w/7k miles has some of the worst feeling brakes i've ever felt on a big modern bike.  Hoping it's something easy like brake pads.  To basically describe them, i have very little feel while depressing the levers (front/rear).  Feels like i'm stopping a wagon with wooden brakes.  I pull the lever it slows, then suddenly jerks to a stop, vague to no feel in the levers.  Also, if i use just the rear brake, it takes considerable effort to get it to slow.   

Would you guess this to be older fluid? 
Needing new brake pads? 
Or is this just how this linked brake system operates?

Thanks!

Offline fartymarty

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Re: Brakes...these brakes!
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2020, 11:35:34 am »
I know some dislike the feel of the linked brakes especially how the rear brake pedal can cause the front brakes to come on too strong when they aren't expecting it. However the wooden brakes feeling you are describing makes me think you have air in the system somewhere, maybe even in the ABS controller. I'd suspect bleeding might be needed, but it is fairly easy to check the brake pads. 7k miles seems a bit early for them to be worn out but who really knows how the PO rode it.

Online maxtog

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Re: Brakes...these brakes!
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2020, 03:28:15 pm »
Ok, this new (to me) 2012 w/7k miles has some of the worst feeling brakes i've ever felt on a big modern bike.  [...]
Or is this just how this linked brake system operates?

No, that doesn't sound normal at all.  The Concours has strong, good brakes.   That bike has not many miles, so my guesses would be old brake fluid and/or glazed/contaminated front rotors and/or pads.  Since the fluid is likely 8 years old, you should change it, for sure.  Then I would clean the rotors and see how it is.  Then look at pads.

Linked brakes is a different topic.  Set it to "low linked" mode (which is not the default, but it will remember that mode once set... unless the battery is ever disconnected, I believe).
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Offline lather

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Re: Brakes...these brakes!
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2020, 03:59:46 pm »
Maybe just semantics but to me when I have air in my lines the word I use for the feel  is mushy, wooden is pretty much the opposite in my mind. To me wooden is when you have to press full hard to get any braking effect. The only cause for that I can imagine is glazed pads. But I have only had 08s and an 09 so now idea what the linked brakes feel like.
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Online maxtog

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Re: Brakes...these brakes!
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2020, 04:07:14 pm »
Maybe just semantics but to me when I have air in my lines the word I use for the feel  is mushy

Or "spongy"

Quote
wooden is pretty much the opposite in my mind. To me wooden is when you have to press full hard to get any braking effect. The only cause for that I can imagine is glazed pads.

That is what I was thinking, too

Quote
But I have only had 08s and an 09 so now idea what the linked brakes feel like.

Not like either of the descriptions.  In fact, when just using the front brake in a straight line, it won't feel hardly any different than unlinked.  It will apply some rear (even in low-linked) but being linked won't change the feel of the front brakes in any way.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline JonnyQuest

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Re: Brakes...these brakes!
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2020, 07:52:37 pm »
Thanks for all the input.  I’ll schedule to have the fluid changed out.  See if that helps smooth out the brakes, and provide feedback.  I’d do it myself but never have tried in on an abs system before.

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Re: Brakes...these brakes!
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2020, 08:26:48 pm »
Thanks for all the input.  I’ll schedule to have the fluid changed out.  See if that helps smooth out the brakes, and provide feedback.  I’d do it myself but never have tried in on an abs system before.

I was nervous the first time I did it and it was much easier than I expected it to be, especially with all the horror stories about people getting air in the lines (perhaps I was just lucky).  I used a "motion pro."  Considering your other post- it is about a hundred times easier than replacing that leaking cam sensor O-ring (and several hundred times easier than a valve adjustment)  :)

Also, I would at least clean the rotors with brake cleaner and a scrubby or something.  That is about as easy a start as possible.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline SmokinRZ

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Re: Brakes...these brakes!
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2020, 08:46:39 am »
At 27K miles someone may have put some cheap ebay pads in there.  Check them out for a brand on the backing plate or change them out to EBC or OEM pads and bleed the brakes.  I have EBC in all my bikes.  The rotors get contaminates that you can't see.  I didn't believe it myself until I had pulsing sensations that was cured by sanding the disks, and then riding in a torrential downpour for 150 miles  :o

The C14 has very good brakes.  Something is not right. 
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Re: Brakes...these brakes!
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2020, 09:15:05 am »
At 27K miles someone may have put some cheap ebay pads in there.

But he says it has only 7K miles.  I can't imagine anyone having needed to change pads in such a short distance, unless all those were track miles or something.

Quote
The C14 has very good brakes.  Something is not right.

+1
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Brakes...these brakes!
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2020, 03:00:32 pm »
Interesting problem.. a 2012 with 7k miles that has bad brakes.  I would think the first thing to try is replace the old fluid. Maybe something is gakked up or air in the system ..hopefully not the ABS unit.  When we saw a couple of forum posts  say their ABS failed due to old fluid  I went and bleed the system and I also actuated the pumps. The rear brake is easy to lock up  - normally.   I do not think me giving advice to lock up the front wheel to actuate the pump is a good idea, however I took my bike on flat grass and hit the front brake just fast enough to actuate the pump. Then bled it again.  Like I said .. not a good idea for advice..just saying what I did..
Was this bike stored indoors? 
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Offline JonnyQuest

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Re: Brakes...these brakes!
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2020, 06:33:46 pm »
Ok, so i took the Concours out all day Saturday, riding up A1A along the coast to an area called Fernandina Beach.  Weather was perfect. 
After some time in the saddle the brakes seemed to come in, at least to what i would consider normal.  Im assuming the fluid just needed to circulate through the lines and get up to a more normal operating temperature.

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Re: Brakes...these brakes!
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2020, 08:47:21 pm »
After some time in the saddle the brakes seemed to come in, at least to what i would consider normal.  Im assuming the fluid just needed to circulate through the lines and get up to a more normal operating temperature.

I think it is more likely just some contaminates on the rotors/pads that eventually got burned off with good brake use.  But as long as it is good, I guess it doesn't matter :)   But you should probably change the fluid, anyway (both brakes and clutch).  I don't want to sound too hypocritical, since I waited waaaay too long to change mine- 7yrs/33Kmi; you don't have the miles, but you do have the age... 
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Brakes...these brakes!
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2020, 06:55:54 am »
I suspect the brake system is corroded from never being flushed.

I suggest; remove/replace the fluid from the brake reservoirs and put some new in for a quick test to see if it improves anything.
  The old fluid can be sucked out with any suction tool. Even a turkey baster if you don't have better..
Then do a normal bleed like any other bike.

This is not a cure in any way, but might help a bit.

Also, "because of the linked system", do not use the rear brake.
Applying only the front will operate both.
Adding rear brake pedal after front is applied disproportionally applies more brake.

Doing this is difficult to get used to, but using only the front lever works great on the 12-15 model..
I have a 2014.

Ride safe, Ted
   

Ride safe, Ted