Author Topic: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving  (Read 6874 times)

Offline Conrad

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #140 on: April 05, 2020, 06:08:08 am »
I deleted your post because it was in violation of open forum rules, no profanities... The Arena is allowed unfiltered discussion, the open forum does not...

I've been a member of this forum for almost 12 years now and I have almost 6k posts. In all that time I've never had to have a post deleted, until now.

You didn't think that perhaps you could have afforded me a heads up on this, T? Maybe a quick PM saying that my post was deleted because of my use of profanity? Or maybe, even better, a PM asking me to edit my post otherwise it will vanish?

Normally when you punish someone for breaking the rules the process works much better when that person is aware that they have broken the rules and what the reason is for said punishment. Wouldn't you agree, T?
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #141 on: April 05, 2020, 06:10:11 am »
What do you imagine was deleted? Although I have noticed your TDS is bleeding out of the Arena into the main forum more and more. Might want to turn the 'news' off for awhile.

I didn't imagine anything, thank you.  But you're right about the rest...
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #142 on: April 05, 2020, 06:14:29 am »
I owe you an apology Max. I'm sorry, please forgive me for accusing you of deleting my post. I am sincerely sorry. I should have known that you wouldn't delete a post without some form of discussion with me about the issue. My emotions got the better of me and I jumped to the wrong conclusion. Not an excuse by any means

Apology accepted.  I was pretty shocked- for a moment, I actually thought someone else broke in and was posting using your login.

Quote
Had I known I certainly wouldn't have accused you of the deletion. Again, I'm sorry.

I would never attempt to delete something just because I disagree with someone.  But there are many people in the world that would, unfortunately.
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #143 on: April 05, 2020, 07:45:38 am »
Apology accepted.  I was pretty shocked- for a moment, I actually thought someone else broke in and was posting using your login.

I would never attempt to delete something just because I disagree with someone.  But there are many people in the world that would, unfortunately.

Thank you Max.
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Offline T Cro ®

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #144 on: April 05, 2020, 04:15:07 pm »
I've been a member of this forum for almost 12 years now and I have almost 6k posts. In all that time I've never had to have a post deleted, until now.

You didn't think that perhaps you could have afforded me a heads up on this, T? Maybe a quick PM saying that my post was deleted because of my use of profanity? Or maybe, even better, a PM asking me to edit my post otherwise it will vanish?

Normally when you punish someone for breaking the rules the process works much better when that person is aware that they have broken the rules and what the reason is for said punishment. Wouldn't you agree, T?

Of course I could have given you warning before removing the vulgar outburst, but I choose to be silent as a test to see how you would react...
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Offline gPink

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #145 on: April 05, 2020, 06:44:31 pm »
So Conrad, how does it feel to be an unwilling, unknowing subject in someones psychology 101 science experiment?
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Offline j_wahl91

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #146 on: April 05, 2020, 07:11:03 pm »
If I may step in for a moment. I don't know anyone here all the well yet but I will say this. With these trying times, and with the powers that be constantly bickering with each other instead of coming up with a way to help the general public, now isn't the time for the general public to be at arms with each other. I would suggest we all take a moment to let emotions settle, remind ourselves that it's hard to get tone and meaning through text (something about a lack of inflection through speech being pesky) and just find ways to be supportive of those that have access to these forums. From what I've been able to read through when I have some free time from my 6 day work weeks, this community is pretty cool and very helpful. I'd hate to see a stressful situation break apart some relations built through the threads on this site.

I'll put my soap box away for now, carry on as y'all see fit. Be safe out there in the real world and keep the shiny side up :)

Offline Boomer

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #147 on: April 06, 2020, 02:55:06 am »
Back to the subject of "neutral" news, I'm surprised that you find the BBC to be biased. I don't often see the BBC that y'all get in the USA but here they have a mandate to be as neutral as possible w.r.t. the news. As a consequence we constantly hear that the BBC is left biased and the BBC is right biased and both the left and right agree that the BBC is against them. I don't know about you guys, but hearing both sides bitching that the BBC is biased against them is as good an indication of near-neutrality as you will get in this age of extremist news services.

Based on what I have seen over here I would lump Fox and CNN together in the bin marked "Politically biased with frequent fabrication" which in my opinion makes them not worth my time. I regularly peruse a variety of internationally available news services, from Aljazeera to Sky News to try to see the world from other peoples points of view. Listening to and trying to understand both sides of any issue can often be a real eye opener.

One of the gauges I use to judge news services is how they report on disasters.
Some like the BBC will initially under-report the casualties and slowly adjust upwards as the actual figures become clearer and will often clearly state that their numbers are estimates.
Others often report wildly over the top numbers and slowly correct downwards towards the actual figures.
One classic was after flight MH17 was shot down over the Ukraine when some news services initially reported over 500 dead even though a 777-200ER can only hold a maximum of 286 passengers. They later tried to justify that entirely fabricated number by saying that they had assumed there would be casualties on the ground as well.

Finally, I have a personal rule that any news service (or anything else in life for that matter) that ever uses the phrase "The Truth" to describe something that they are reporting on is utter hogwash and not worth using as emergency TP. The classic for that was the Soviet era newspaper Pravda which translates into English as "Truth". There is no "Truth", there are just facts and opinion both of which can vary depending on who is reporting and who is consuming them.
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #148 on: April 06, 2020, 06:24:33 am »
Of course I could have given you warning before removing the vulgar outburst, but I choose to be silent as a test to see how you would react...

Oh, I see. That, of course, makes perfect sense...
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #149 on: April 06, 2020, 06:25:08 am »
If I may step in for a moment. I don't know anyone here all the well yet but I will say this. With these trying times, and with the powers that be constantly bickering with each other instead of coming up with a way to help the general public, now isn't the time for the general public to be at arms with each other. I would suggest we all take a moment to let emotions settle, remind ourselves that it's hard to get tone and meaning through text (something about a lack of inflection through speech being pesky) and just find ways to be supportive of those that have access to these forums. From what I've been able to read through when I have some free time from my 6 day work weeks, this community is pretty cool and very helpful. I'd hate to see a stressful situation break apart some relations built through the threads on this site.

I'll put my soap box away for now, carry on as y'all see fit. Be safe out there in the real world and keep the shiny side up :)

Well said. I'll try to do my part.
Northern Illinois   Silverdammit '08 C-14 ABS

"Don't bother me with facts, Son. I've already made up my mind." -Foghorn Leghorn

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #150 on: April 06, 2020, 09:34:37 am »
Well said. I'll try to do my part.



 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :popcorn: :rotflmao:


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Offline just gone

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #151 on: April 06, 2020, 11:34:07 am »
Back to the subject of "neutral" news, I'm surprised that you find the BBC to be biased. I don't often see the BBC that y'all get in the USA but here they have a mandate to be as neutral as possible w.r.t. the news. As a consequence we constantly hear that the BBC is left biased and the BBC is right biased and both the left and right agree that the BBC is against them.

I guess that is mostly directed at me, since Brian said he finds it mostly unbiased. I'll admit that I don't watch the the BBC America version of the news, but I do read the BBC news on the BBC app on my phone. I have no way of knowing if I am receiving the same thing on that APP as I would if I resided in the UK. If it is in fact biased, I'll agree with you that it is nowhere near as biased as the most biased of the main stream media here regardless of the left/right direction of lean. However since, on the whole, the  Government of the UK is slightly to the left of the U.S. (I will add IMO here in case some disagree) then it would seem that if it is considered neutral there, that it would be slightly left biased here. Am I using faulty logic? ..or worse no logic?
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What I really dislike about our TV news is the commercialism involved. The need to make it palatable and entertaining to the lowest common denominator so the most people will tune in to see the ads. I wish it had no commercial ads, ever. I wish they would try to be as cold and factual as possible. I tire of the adjectives they use, "shocking new video", well I'll decide if its shocking thank you; "disturbing story" well I'll decide if its disturbing thank you; "surprising response" well once again I'd like to make that decision. Then the need to have a touchy feel good story at the end of every broadcast, "heart warming story of those who care"; I'll decide if it's heartwarming if I must, but I'd rather see the story of real news that was cut to make room for the mushy stuff. Stories about people standing around at candlelight vigils (IMO a huge waste of time by stupid people), stories about firetrucks parading in front of hospitals with their lights and sirens on in a "tribute" to health care workers. Get the hell out of there and let the nurses and doctors get back inside to save people. Broadcasting that crap stuff just encourages more illogical behavior. Might as well have a rolling thunder tribute of open piped Harleys parading by "paying tribute", when in fact it would really be an excuse for them to get out and do what they like doing (noise making and having people look at them) more than it has to do with tribute. Want to give real tribute?..give them some masks and gloves you've been hoarding at home.

OK, I'm finished venting, thanks for the forum..back to virus talk folks..

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #152 on: April 06, 2020, 02:08:25 pm »
MIDNIGHT TONIGHT...

i fully agree, just sharing...

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #153 on: April 06, 2020, 03:11:03 pm »
Right- all the 'news' ever needed to be was..... news. It has become confused and infused with entertainment, which IMO has effectively ruined the very point of news, which should be, and used to be, simply providing information. Can you even imagine what Edward Murrow or even Walter Cronkite would think of today's "dog and pony shows" that are presented as news?

We are literally living the plot of the movie 'Network' IMO. That was an off-beat, somewhat dark comedy. Of course the news today is bright and upbeat comedy but close enough. And not just the news, the entertainment / shock / being amazingly interesting factor has infected most aspects of life that should be dry, direct and unbiased. If you do not believe that, go back and watch any part (or all) of the O.J. case.... what should have been a court case, tried by 'blind justice' was really a soap opera that could have been named 'As the stomach turns'. (not talking about guilt or innocence of that case, just the fact that it was a media circus and was dripping with false drama for 'the masses')

And BTW, not much of a rant Marty.  ;) ;D

Brian


<snip>

What I really dislike about our TV news is the commercialism involved.

<snip>

OK, I'm finished venting, thanks for the forum..back to virus talk folks..
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #154 on: April 06, 2020, 03:18:18 pm »
I guess that is mostly directed at me, since Brian said he finds it [BBC] mostly unbiased. I'll admit that I don't watch the the BBC America version of the news, but I do read the BBC news on the BBC app on my phone. I have no way of knowing if I am receiving the same thing on that APP as I would if I resided in the UK. If it is in fact biased, I'll agree with you that it is nowhere near as biased as the most biased of the main stream media here regardless of the left/right direction of lean.

I also don't know about "BBC America", when I do consult BBC, I go straight there.  I agree that the BBC is far less biased than perhaps all USA mainstream media.  But all media is biased in some way, it is almost impossible not to be.  It is more of a matter of what type of bias(es), how far, and in what way.  Not covering something is also a bias, and I see that a LOT.

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However since, on the whole, the  Government of the UK is slightly to the left of the U.S. (I will add IMO here in case some disagree)

I agree.  The UK as a whole, is considerably more left than the USA, as a whole.  But their mainstream media seems far less so than the vast majority of ours.  Ours has also been getting worse by the year (or at least it certainly seems that way to me). 

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then it would seem that if it is considered neutral there, that it would be slightly left biased here. Am I using faulty logic? ..or worse no logic?

No, I think your logic is correct.  Everything is relative.

About the best one can hope for when researching something here is to consult MULTIPLE sources, specifically INCLUDING right-of-center sources (which are few and far between) and see where they agree and on what they disagree (and how), and sometimes include a BBC perspective on it, too.  Somewhere between is the truth (whatever that might be).  This is frustrating, though, because it takes a lot of effort, few people will do that.  They will watch CNN or read the NY Times and think they are getting "balanced and impartial" news, and nothing could be further from the truth.
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Offline gPink

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #155 on: April 06, 2020, 06:25:35 pm »
snip

Based on what I have seen over here I would lump Fox and CNN together in the bin marked "Politically biased with frequent fabrication" which in my opinion makes them not worth my time. I regularly peruse a variety of internationally available news services, from Aljazeera to Sky News to try to see the world from other peoples points of view. Listening to and trying to understand both sides of any issue can often be a real eye opener.

snip


Why would I want to do that especially since I would probably consider their 'point of view' wrong.  :rotflmao:
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Offline Boomer

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #156 on: April 07, 2020, 07:19:36 am »
Why would I want to do that especially since I would probably consider their 'point of view' wrong.  :rotflmao:
If you choose to listen to one source for your news, then we have nothing further to discuss. You have made up your mind and are convinced that your side are right and that's an end of it. Personally I try to keep an open mind and don't believe in extremes in anything outside of the basic laws of physics.

As for the BBC being left leaning from the US's point of view, most probably, but then y'all are one of the more right leaning countries in the "western world". The BBC is far from perfect but until recently it remained mostly free of political interference. Unfortunately that may soon change if they get forced to go fully commercial.  >:(
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #157 on: April 07, 2020, 02:58:56 pm »
y'all are one of the more right leaning countries in the "western world".

By design :)
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Offline gPink

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #158 on: April 07, 2020, 03:27:12 pm »
If you choose to listen to one source for your news, then we have nothing further to discuss. You have made up your mind and are convinced that your side are right and that's an end of it. Personally I try to keep an open mind and don't believe in extremes in anything outside of the basic laws of physics.

As for the BBC being left leaning from the US's point of view, most probably, but then y'all are one of the more right leaning countries in the "western world". The BBC is far from perfect but until recently it remained mostly free of political interference. Unfortunately that may soon change if they get forced to go fully commercial.  >:(

Here in the Colonies NPR, National Public Radio, and PBS, Public Broadcasting System, are both funded with taxpayer monies. They both are overtly left leaning. I as a taxpayer do not have a say on how my money is spent to fund them. They are using my tax money in direct contradiction to my interests. Self supporting commercial media is funded by my discretionary spending. I can and do choose where I spend my time (watching and listening) and my money (advertising). I don't think you are getting a bias free BBC just because it's not influenced by capitalist advertising dollars.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #159 on: April 07, 2020, 04:05:53 pm »
Here in the Colonies NPR, National Public Radio, and PBS, Public Broadcasting System, are both funded with taxpayer monies.

They also are funded by individual donations, corporate grants, fund raisers, etc.  So it is nowhere near 100% government funded.  Of course, trying to figure out how MUCH is government funding is apparently very difficult to determine.  Despite my [not terribly in-depth] research, I still don't know.  But I would guess it is more than 50%.

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They both are overtly left leaning.

Absolutely.  But at least they are generally "softer" (not loud or annoying or sensationalistic) and generally less politicized.

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I as a taxpayer do not have a say on how my money is spent to fund them.

Not directly.  But no less than we have on anything else that is government-controlled.  In theory, we have a representative government, and that is about the span of an individual's control over it (which isn't much).  A bigger issue (to me) is that it is not really a power granted to the Federal government in the Constitution (but that hardly seems to matter, anymore).

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I don't think you are getting a bias free BBC just because it's not influenced by capitalist advertising dollars.

No media and no news can be completely bias-free.  Some are better than others, of course.

That aside, there is still some good content on PBS, mostly things that stick to art, literature-based, how-to, and pure science.  Frontline is an example of something outside that list, although, depending on the topic, it often still has some good content.  Similar (but lesser) thing with Nova- excellent show most of the time, but it can really lean at times.
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