Author Topic: Front Won't Build Pressure  (Read 5524 times)

Offline Michelle

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Re: Front Won't Build Pressure
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2020, 04:44:59 am »
If the bike has linked brakes don't you need to bleed the system at both ends using both the front lever and the brake pedal?

No. There is no physical link. It is done by the computer manipulating the pressure in the abs pump.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Front Won't Build Pressure
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2020, 06:42:33 am »
He had brakes before he cracked the calipers.  We don't know the reason to replace the seals in them other than just because.  Two possibilities I see are the calipers and possibly the way the linked brakes work hydraulically.  I cracked open both my fronts and didn't have this much issue with getting the system bled other than putting two washers together on one side.  Still have to get that fixed for my friend who bought my bike.
Someone with a manual, is the brake bleeding procedure different on these bikes?

I have a hard time thinking this is something other than what was touched to begin with.

Man, I'd love to be closer to the OP to see what's going on with this and troubleshoot the issue.  What a crazy interesting issue!
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Front Won't Build Pressure
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2020, 08:21:37 am »
New washers, right?
"LOCTITE┬«"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! 2008 C14 Moved on to a new home, 2016 RM traded in.

Offline okrider

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Re: Front Won't Build Pressure
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2020, 07:09:25 am »
New washers, new seals, old pistons. Going to be taking it apart again and inspecting my work. I agree with zrx mitch that it must be something I've done wrong. I just don't know what it is. First time rebuilding brakes, I'll post if I can find what's wrong.

What's the suggested way to bleed calipers to ensure no air is trapped in the caliper after rebuilding it?

Back when I was first bleeding, I could get air bubbles out by compressing the caliper with the bleeder nipple open, which leads me to believe this whole thing's happening because there's still air there
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Offline okrider

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Re: Front Won't Build Pressure
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2020, 10:37:04 am »
Took the left side apart yesterday, inspected everything and reinstalled, didn't see anything out of the ordinary besides some shaved metal, I think I misplaced the pistons, I figured they'd be identical but maybe not? Because some piston grooves had some markings on the middle.

Anyways, cleaned everything up, put it back together, it gravity bled by the time I put the bleeder in, bled the brakes for quite a while and it feels a little better than before, going to do the right side too, hoping I get all the air out this time
'11 Black: Russel Day-Long, Mountain Runner, cage w/ highway pegs, 2Bros Slip-on, Helibars Horizon

Offline okrider

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Re: Front Won't Build Pressure
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2020, 02:57:28 pm »
Just redid the right side as well, didn't see anything wrong with it, put it together. Did the bleeds, got a bunch of air out, now I have clear fluid coming out of all the orifices, and I still have super spongy brakes, they build pressure if I pump 3 times but lasts about 3-4 seconds and it's back to the handlebar after that.

Does anyone have any ideas? I'm quite frustrated and don't know what to do anymore..
'11 Black: Russel Day-Long, Mountain Runner, cage w/ highway pegs, 2Bros Slip-on, Helibars Horizon

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Front Won't Build Pressure
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2020, 03:37:12 pm »
Just redid the right side as well, didn't see anything wrong with it, put it together. Did the bleeds, got a bunch of air out, now I have clear fluid coming out of all the orifices, and I still have super spongy brakes, they build pressure if I pump 3 times but lasts about 3-4 seconds and it's back to the handlebar after that.

Does anyone have any ideas? I'm quite frustrated and don't know what to do anymore..
Well, this is a long shot  but maybe ..this could be your issue.  I have seen on another bike where a caliper was incorrectly installed The Caliper could not center itself on the slide pins.  So when you applied the brakes it took two or three pumps and the brakes would work fine but then a few seconds later - no brakes- you have to pump 3 times again. What happened was the piston on the stuck caliper  pushed on one side only  of the rotor...the rotor would bend over slightly  like a spring... then the rotor would push  / spring back the piston back in again to create a large gap.... so  you had to pump the lever several times again.   Is it possible this is what yours is doing? The other front  caliper could center just fine. The   other side  could  not center which  caused the problem.


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If you still have fuel in the tank, you are not lost yet
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle

Offline okrider

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Re: Front Won't Build Pressure
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2020, 03:48:09 pm »
Hmm, I guess I'll observe the pistons squeeze the rotor tomorrow. The reason I took the calipers apart is because my brakes were dragging. I don't know they're still dragging as the bike's still on the lift.

I also don't tighten the caliper mount bolts until I squeeze the brake lever and have the caliper center itself

'11 Black: Russel Day-Long, Mountain Runner, cage w/ highway pegs, 2Bros Slip-on, Helibars Horizon

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Front Won't Build Pressure
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2020, 12:59:41 pm »

I also don't tighten the caliper mount bolts until I squeeze the brake lever and have the caliper center itself
I never heard of that procedure. Is it in a book or service manual?
I think the calipers may cock  and bind  if you do that.   Tighten the bolts to spec first unless you know  otherwise and can show me please.

Interesting that you had a bind at first.  You may still have the original problem. Before installing the pads... did you verify the caliper can center and move back and forth on the slides. One caliper may still be bound up.
If you still have fuel in the tank, you are not lost yet
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle

Offline okrider

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Re: Front Won't Build Pressure
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2020, 02:35:41 pm »
here's why I squeeze the brakes first before tightening the bolts. https://youtu.be/C26ww0dsMTI?t=296

so after bleeding everything including myself (pinched my finger), I removed the calipers, pushed the pistons in and hung them sideways using a bungee cord to force any air that might be stuck somewhere/anywhere up towards the bleeder, going to try bleeding again tonight to see if I get any bubbles
'11 Black: Russel Day-Long, Mountain Runner, cage w/ highway pegs, 2Bros Slip-on, Helibars Horizon

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Front Won't Build Pressure
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2020, 03:35:53 pm »
Oh shyte  .. you are correct. C14 front brakes are  not self centering with slides.
 I learned something today. Thank You.  I was thinking of my old C10 and my dirt bikes... all self centering.                                                     
                            C14 are radial -opposing piston- fixed caliper brakes.  My bad..   On my KTM's you spin the wheel and hit the brake to center the wheel before tightening the pinch bolts.    Now I am back to wondering what your issue is?  One side (2 of the 4 pistons)  of the caliper pushing harder than the other side?    Now you have me watching his videos.  Is there a chance you need a master rebuild? How old is your bike?


If you still have fuel in the tank, you are not lost yet
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle

Offline Michelle

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Re: Front Won't Build Pressure
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2020, 06:10:58 pm »
Left field question. Does it have the stock brake lever?

Also remember that on a linked brake bike the line goes from the master back under the tank to the ABS unit, then two lines come back under the tank, all the way to each front caliper. That's a lot of line to hide air bubbles in.
Neutron Silver 08 1400GTR ABS with KTRC K-ACT and ECO

Offline okrider

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Re: Front Won't Build Pressure
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2020, 07:42:11 pm »
I don't think my master needs a rebuild as it was working fine before I tore the calipers apart. My bike's a 2011 with 43k miles. It is a very long system, I'm aware, I just don't know what to do to completely flush the system. I think I'll buy some more brake fluid tomorrow and do a non stop flush for about 15 minutes, see if I get anything.

I tried hanging the calipers sideways today to see if I can get any air out that might've been stuck inside the caliper, I got nothing, going to leave it hanging upside down overnight, with the lever pulled, see if it's better by morning.

It does have the stock lever. Why?

There's no bleed nipples by the abs unit right? That would've helped as I could scratch it off the list. Of course the ABS unit having upward facing hoses doesn't help the situation, some chance I got a bubble in the stupid ABS unit as it's a high point.

'11 Black: Russel Day-Long, Mountain Runner, cage w/ highway pegs, 2Bros Slip-on, Helibars Horizon

Offline Michelle

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Re: Front Won't Build Pressure
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2020, 01:04:35 am »
Some similar problems have been traced back to aftermarket levers. So we know it isn't that.
I use a vacuum pump to suck the fluid through, rather than push. Makes life a whole lot easier and saves swear words for when I really need them.  ;)

https://www.harborfreight.com/Brake-Bleeder-and-Vacuum-Pump-Kit-63391.html

No, there are no bleeders on the abs unit. One by the master and one on each caliper.
Neutron Silver 08 1400GTR ABS with KTRC K-ACT and ECO

Offline okrider

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Re: Front Won't Build Pressure
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2020, 05:56:07 am »
I have a vacuum pump but I haven't been using it for long enough at a time to move fluid through the entire system, I simply didn't think there'll be air trapped in the lines, and I've been trying to bleed the calipers this whole time, I'm going to try that today. Going to attach the fluid pump to the speed bleeders and pump the brakes like a mad man, see if I get anything out. Fingers crossed..
'11 Black: Russel Day-Long, Mountain Runner, cage w/ highway pegs, 2Bros Slip-on, Helibars Horizon