Author Topic: Bike is dead  (Read 1404 times)

Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10981
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2020, 06:06:23 pm »
The main failure points for the C-14's main electrical system are the two connections to the battery, and the two heavy ground lines connected to the frame just in front of the battery box. All four can be looked at / cleaned and tightened w/out removing any fairing or anything else.

There are internal ground clusters 'here and there' around the bike but I have not heard of any of those failing in any way. They are crimped and sealed connections and so are not subject to either mechanical loosening or corrosion that the exposed connections on and around the battery are.

Best of luck.

Brian


I have heard of those ground clusters corroding and having issues but it's typically in a non-dry environment such as the British Isles or near a coast.
"LOCTITE®"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! 2008 C14 Moved on to a new home, 2016 RM traded in.

Offline basmntdweller

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 307
  • Country: us
    • The Profile Brotherhood
Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2020, 06:12:48 pm »

I have heard of those ground clusters corroding and having issues but it's typically in a non-dry environment such as the British Isles or near a coast.

Not much of that here in Indiana😁
'09 C14
'98 DR-350
'11 Suzuki C50T wife's ride since she hates my Connie
'03 Honda CBR600RR track bike

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4893
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2020, 08:06:40 pm »
Well, I live near a coast (less than 10 miles from the Atlantic) and have not heard of any ground clusters failing or giving trouble.

So much for 'what we have heard'. Anybody got any actual data?

Brian


I have heard of those ground clusters corroding and having issues but it's typically in a non-dry environment such as the British Isles or near a coast.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline gPink

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5631
  • Country: us
  • MMVIII C XIV
Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2020, 05:50:20 am »
A member on the cog site, Just Cliff, had trouble he traced to one or more of the ground clusters.
Thank God for good men willing to do extreme violence.

Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10981
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2020, 06:11:38 am »
Reported to the UK forum at least once or twice.  I would also think they may be more susceptible to this the farther north you go.


And no, Brian.  I'm not making this up...LOL.
"LOCTITE®"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! 2008 C14 Moved on to a new home, 2016 RM traded in.

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4893
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2020, 08:31:43 am »
If we are talking about the loose blocks in the bike's harness, that is amazing. Japanese connectors and their associated terminals and seals are just excellent and virtually bullet proof.

If there are star grounding points anywhere on the bike where two or more ground wires come together by getting fastened to the frame then it is more understandable. Anything screwed to aluminum is always a target for oxidation, and it seems on the C-14, at least some of them are found loose (though I wonder if they loosened after ass'y as I have never found one I tightened to be loose later).

Anyway, if it does happen, I believe it is extremely rare and possibly a factory ass'y fault rather than something that developed over time. The loose / corroded connectors around the battery are quite common though and I would always recommend people start there when chasing any electrical gremlins.

Brian

A member on the cog site, Just Cliff, had trouble he traced to one or more of the ground clusters.

Reported to the UK forum at least once or twice.  I would also think they may be more susceptible to this the farther north you go.


And no, Brian.  I'm not making this up...LOL.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline fartymarty

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1647
  • Country: us
  • COG#9712 '10 ABS
Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2020, 10:55:46 am »
The main failure points for the C-14's main electrical system are the two connections to the battery, and the two heavy ground lines connected to the frame just in front of the battery box. All four can be looked at / cleaned and tightened w/out removing any fairing or anything else.

Just so any newbies that might come along aren't confused, there is some stuff that needs to be removed. To get at the ground to frame problem (I say that because that is the usual culprit when C14 electrical gremlins pop up on a good battery) you need to remove the plastic battery cover on the right side of the bike. One screw for that. To access both battery terminals you need to remove the inner metal battery cover. 4 screws for that.

I went searching for the post from Justcliff and couldn't find it. I do recall it as well so I'm sure it's either over there or here but I'm not having any luck. The forum over there has been "updated" and Justcliff is now just that, "Cliff" so if you search try his new name even though when he was quoted it still shows up as Justcliff. We need Cliff ...er...Justcliff to come set us straight here and give us a link to his post.


Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4893
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2020, 11:12:16 am »
Good point and yes, the battery covers (one plastic fairing type, one cast aluminum and retained as Marty points out) have to be removed. To clarify, what I meant is that the user does not have to remove any pieces of actual fairing but there is a battery cover, as Marty mentions.

Also, quite a few people have stripped the four cap screws that hold on that aluminum cover; the screws are held in with that nasty permanent thread locking 'stuff' (yeah, that's the right word  ::) ) that Kawasaki loves and uses as a weapon against the purchasers of their products. Add to that that the screws use a sub- sized hex wrench and are the wrench hex is quite shallow and you have a recipe for a bad situation Kawasaki recommends that any fasteners that have that red thread locker on them be replaced with new fasteners, which come with the evil thread locker already applied but I would suggest re- using the hardware and using a touch of anti- seize on them to prevent problems in the future.

If there is a thread about a failed ground cluster (yep, one can add words to that.....) I would love to read it. And pictures would be outstanding. It could be that the common blocks are not true connectors and are not waterproof as are virtually all the other connectors all over the bike. One of the things that the Japanese vehicle manufacturers really shine at, and always have in my experience, is wiring overall and especially connectors specifically. US autos have improved tremendously in maybe the last two or three decades but earlier versions were downright awful regarding electrics IMO. As to the group grounding blocks, I have never had one opened personally and so am just assuming they are of a similar quality to the rest of the electrics on the bike.

Brian

Just so any newbies that might come along aren't confused, there is some stuff that needs to be removed. To get at the ground to frame problem (I say that because that is the usual culprit when C14 electrical gremlins pop up on a good battery) you need to remove the plastic battery cover on the right side of the bike. One screw for that. To access both battery terminals you need to remove the inner metal battery cover. 4 screws for that.

I went searching for the post from Justcliff and couldn't find it. I do recall it as well so I'm sure it's either over there or here but I'm not having any luck. The forum over there has been "updated" and Justcliff is now just that, "Cliff" so if you search try his new name even though when he was quoted it still shows up as Justcliff. We need Cliff ...er...Justcliff to come set us straight here and give us a link to his post.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline gPink

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5631
  • Country: us
  • MMVIII C XIV
Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2020, 12:54:32 pm »
Just so any newbies that might come along aren't confused, there is some stuff that needs to be removed. To get at the ground to frame problem (I say that because that is the usual culprit when C14 electrical gremlins pop up on a good battery) you need to remove the plastic battery cover on the right side of the bike. One screw for that. To access both battery terminals you need to remove the inner metal battery cover. 4 screws for that.

I went searching for the post from Justcliff and couldn't find it. I do recall it as well so I'm sure it's either over there or here but I'm not having any luck. The forum over there has been "updated" and Justcliff is now just that, "Cliff" so if you search try his new name even though when he was quoted it still shows up as Justcliff. We need Cliff ...er...Justcliff to come set us straight here and give us a link to his post.
I took a look at the new site and it looks like the search box is unavailable unless you submit. Am I missing something?
Thank God for good men willing to do extreme violence.

Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10981
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2020, 02:09:14 pm »
I took a look at the new site and it looks like the search box is unavailable unless you submit. Am I missing something?


So many ways to answer this...
"LOCTITE®"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! 2008 C14 Moved on to a new home, 2016 RM traded in.

Offline gPink

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5631
  • Country: us
  • MMVIII C XIV
Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2020, 02:36:21 pm »
 :facepalm:
Thank God for good men willing to do extreme violence.

Offline fartymarty

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1647
  • Country: us
  • COG#9712 '10 ABS
Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2020, 02:44:21 pm »
I took a look at the new site and it looks like the search box is unavailable unless you submit. Am I missing something?


So many ways to answer this...
  :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Pinkie "You must submit! You must submit!"




Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10981
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2020, 04:37:32 pm »
 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:


And 3 stars to Mr. Pink!
"LOCTITE®"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! 2008 C14 Moved on to a new home, 2016 RM traded in.

Offline Justcliff

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 39
  • Country: us
Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2020, 06:31:57 pm »
Well, I live near a coast (less than 10 miles from the Atlantic) and have not heard of any ground clusters failing or giving trouble.

So much for 'what we have heard'. Anybody got any actual data?

Brian

I had a ground block corrode several years ago. It caused my headlights to go out, my high beam & blinker indicators to burn continuously, also the blinkers burned dim & steady.

Best I can remember there are 11 of these blocks in the harness. The one that caused me problems was right by the air filter access. You can feel the little square lumps in the harness. You have to cut the wrapping open to see them. 

I simply cut out the block & soldered the wires together then put a wire nut on & taped it up good.

My bike is stored in a semi climate controlled building & primarily used for travel. It has been ridden 10's of thousands of miles in the rain.

Cliff

2008 C14, 235,000 miles & counting!  2014 V-Strom 1000
IBA#66047

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4893
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2020, 07:22:03 pm »
Thanks for posting this (or re- posting it)! Very interesting....  That looks like one- half of a connector that does not have the other half connected to it. ?

Very disappointing on a Japanese bike. The one thing Japanese mfg's have always commanded, at least IMO and IME, is wiring. What you show there is more typical of American wiring, unfortunately.

Again, thanks!

Brian

I had a ground block corrode several years ago. It caused my headlights to go out, my high beam & blinker indicators to burn continuously, also the blinkers burned dim & steady.

Best I can remember there are 11 of these blocks in the harness. The one that caused me problems was right by the air filter access. You can feel the little square lumps in the harness. You have to cut the wrapping open to see them. 

I simply cut out the block & soldered the wires together then put a wire nut on & taped it up good.

My bike is stored in a semi climate controlled building & primarily used for travel. It has been ridden 10's of thousands of miles in the rain.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com