Author Topic: I was not really in the market but....  (Read 713 times)

Offline B.D.F.

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I was not really in the market but....
« on: October 04, 2020, 03:05:25 pm »
After Kawasaki announced another model year for the C-14, I went and looked up the price- mistake number one. Then I did a quick search for C-14's being sold both new and used and that was mistake number two.

I am not in the market for a motorcycle. I do have the attitude that I will get one more before I become too decrepit to ride or die but not in the immediate future. But....... the prices of a new C-14 are nothing short of stunning. Add to that that the 2020's and 2021's look like they are a very attractive silver / black two- tone and things are not getting better. I can list the reasons why I should not buy a motorcycle and there are more than a few. Plus I am not looking forward to farkeling a new one so that it is rideable.

On the other side of the coin, I have a brand- new, shiny grandson about eight hours away that I have not seen yet. And his sister, my 28 month old granddaughter is two clicks to the right of uber- adorable and I have not seen her in a year (in the flesh- we 'chat' via Facetime just about everyday). Driving to my son's place is a pain in the cage but would be a fantastic ride on a bike. And even better on the back of a C-14, one of my most favored bikes of all time. Add to these reasons the illogical but nevertheless real "I want one" and we have the makings of a real deal- killer.

Damn you Kawasaki, Damn you all to Hell! (it works better if you picture Charleton Heston saying it).

D'oh!

I found some w/in four or five hours from me at pretty attractive prices- all new but 2020 leftovers. I could not care less what model year the bike is as long as it is a 2015 or later to get all the latest changed to the model. And the 2015 is out 'cause of the color :-(  but anything from a 2016 on up works for me. And with the three year warranty, extendable two times, I should have a bike under warranty all the way to dirt (and no, I do not mean falling down in dirt  ;) ;D).

Brian
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Offline gPink

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2020, 03:57:33 pm »
...what's the punchline?  ???
Thank God for good men willing to do extreme violence.

Offline maxtog

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2020, 04:18:40 pm »
Just go buy it.  You know you want it.  And you only live once.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2020, 04:39:06 pm »
Nice, like that helps!

 ;D

Just go buy it.  You know you want it.  And you only live once.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline maxtog

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2020, 09:09:01 pm »
Nice, like that helps!  ;D


Hey, nobody said I was your financial advisor.  But, seriously, like I just posted in another thread recently...  if you love the C14, there isn't anything left on the market like it anymore (except maybe the FJR).  And there might not be, ever again.  If you love it, then the best way you can extend that long-term experience is to grab another, much newer one.

You know what you like.  You have the experience.  You know exactly how you want to farkle it.  You even have some of those farkles ready to transfer.  And you can do it much more quickly than you could EVER figure out some completely new bike model that probably doesn't even meet your needs.

Unless you think the C14 you have can survive as long as you want to continue riding, and you like what you have, there is an answer.  It is a great bike, but years and miles on ANY vehicle will take their toll and the clock is ticking.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2020, 09:33:49 pm »
All correct as far as I know. Looked at several other models and other makes and nothing comes close to the value of a C-14. And yes, I do like the bike.

I would really like to find one a couple of years old but new (never titled, less than, say, 20 miles on it). The price can be right on those and almost impossible to pass by. One of my main problems with used models is that they often have aftermarket exhausts and often ECU flashes in them, I would prefer neither one done to a bike I purchase.

Not in any hurry but will keep my ear to the proverbial ground. Any 2016 or later would be a consideration.

Brian


Hey, nobody said I was your financial advisor.  But, seriously, like I just posted in another thread recently...  if you love the C14, there isn't anything left on the market like it anymore (except maybe the FJR).  And there might not be, ever again.  If you love it, then the best way you can extend that long-term experience is to grab another, much newer one.

You know what you like.  You have the experience.  You know exactly how you want to farkle it.  You even have some of those farkles ready to transfer.  And you can do it much more quickly than you could EVER figure out some completely new bike model that probably doesn't even meet your needs.

Unless you think the C14 you have can survive as long as you want to continue riding, and you like what you have, there is an answer.  It is a great bike, but years and miles on ANY vehicle will take their toll and the clock is ticking.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2020, 09:54:20 pm »
Looking at the 2019 and 2020 models in silver / black, the silver seems to be flat (not shiny) while the black is gloss- is that correct? Are any year C-14's that are two tone silver / black gloss in both colors?

What are the colors from 2016 to 2021 if anyone happens to know, or can you point me to where the colors are listed?

Thanks.

Brian
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline maxtog

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2020, 09:55:33 pm »
One of my main problems with used models is that they often have aftermarket exhausts and often ECU flashes in them

Either can be undone.  And doing so on the muffler is certainly understandable.  On the ECU flash, not so much, unless that particular flash is not the one you want.  I can't imagine being forced to ride an unflashed C14 at this point.

For me, I would be more worried on a used bike about its possible mistreatment, incorrect maintenance/parts/modifications, or hidden damage, I would not be worried about things I could easily swap out (flash, seat, windscreen, muffler, tires, pegs, etc).
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2020, 09:58:04 pm »
Looking at the 2019 and 2020 models in silver / black, the silver seems to be flat (not shiny) while the black is gloss- is that correct?


That was my assessment when posting it:

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=20250.msg250498#msg250498

Quote
Are any year C-14's that are two tone silver / black gloss in both colors?


No.  There are no other two-tone years at all, in fact.

Quote
What are the colors from 2016 to 2021 if anyone happens to know, or can you point me to where the colors are listed?


Um, see the link above?  :)
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2020, 10:04:22 pm »
Yeah, not worried about anything other than obvious and / or gross damage. Still, for the prices new, I am not willing to get close to those prices on a used bike with several things I do not want and will change immediately. Same goes for travel, a place ticket to CA and the ride back, w/out cruise control, is worth a considerable amount to be able to buy locally (say w/in 250 miles).

My local dealer is advertising a 2016 used for around $12,500 and that just is not going to happen. Same dealer has a 2020 in stock for $15,999 plus a $410 destination charge and that too is not going to happen. But if I travel to the Philadelphia or Washington DC areas, the prices drop considerably and is more than worth the trip out and back.

Just saw your posting on C-14 colors Max and it looks like all of the silver / black combos are flat. Too bad as I am not a fan of that look and again would not buy a new bike with the expectation of having to either paint it or even clear coat it. Again, just not worth it.

As I said, I would love to find a 2017 or 2018, for example, new on a dealer's floor with minimal mileage and no damage and an intact (new) warranty.

Either can be undone.  And doing so on the muffler is certainly understandable.  On the ECU flash, not so much, unless that particular flash is not the one you want.  I can't imagine being forced to ride an unflashed C14 at this point.

For me, I would be more worried on a used bike about its possible mistreatment, incorrect maintenance/parts/modifications, or hidden damage, I would not be worried about things I could easily swap out (flash, seat, windscreen, muffler, tires, pegs, etc).
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2020, 10:08:04 pm »
Yep, found it after posting the message. :-(   Thanks for putting that up.

The 2020 and 2021 certainly seem to be two- tone: mostly silver with a black tank and lower fairings. And it looks excellent in photos other than the part about the silver being flat. Not a fan of flat finishes on vehicles. Probably turned off due to Lincoln advertising "The quiet glow of elegance" when the went to acrylic lacquer in 1975 and could not make the paint shine. More like the quite glow of a lousy production run. Certainly a personal preference but I prefer high gloss vehicles.

That was my assessment when posting it:

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=20250.msg250498#msg250498

No.  There are no other two-tone years at all, in fact.

Um, see the link above?  :)
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline maxtog

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2020, 10:15:20 pm »
Still, for the prices new, I am not willing to get close to those prices on a used bike with several things I do not want and will change immediately.

You just have to factor that into the price you are willing to pay.

Quote
Just saw your posting on C-14 colors Max and it looks like all of the silver / black combos are flat. Too bad as I am not a fan of that look and again would not buy a new bike with the expectation of having to either paint it or even clear coat it. Again, just not worth it.

I am not in favor of either color "combos" or "flat" (matte) paint of any kind.  And, yeah, repainting is not really a great option.  Paint color is quite important to me.... which would greatly restrict what I would want to buy, making it much more difficult to replace what I have.  Fortunately I got exactly what I wanted, Atomic (true) silver, but I had to pay EXTRA to get it.

Looking back, the only other one I would be happy with would probably be 2016 Metallic Moondust Grey (dark silver).  Although I might could live with 2012 Candy Arabian Red ("rootbeer").  I detest black, which I guess is what Kawasaki things we want the most of.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2020, 10:21:10 pm »
Not a fan of flat finishes on vehicles.[...] Certainly a personal preference but I prefer high gloss vehicles."

To me, matte paint not only looks bad, but it even looks "damaged."  It is also very difficult to keep clean, and can be permanently stained by something as simple as a wet leaf sitting on it too long.  And the darker the color, the more nightmare matte paint becomes.

I have not actually seen the 2019/2020 in person (I doubt any of us have), so it might not really be "matte" silver but just lower gloss than typical?  Photographs just don't cut it for really knowing that much, although it is clearly not full gloss.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2020, 05:07:13 pm »
Went to the local Kawasaki emporium today to scope out a 2020 C-14. Not as terrible as I thought it would be but I really do not care for the semi- gloss silver paint. It was not actually flat but semi- gloss and so not horrible but still..... Noticed a bunch of Ducatis and other bikes around  that were also semi- gloss. I guess it is a 'thing'.

Also saw an immaculate 2016 in gray (Moondust gray they call it) which is a very nice color (and shiny too). Bike looks brand new, just under 7K miles (not even broken in yet), has both fobs, has extended warranty and new looking Michelin PR's (not sure which number PR). Also has 'comfort' and stock saddle as well as large Kawasaki top box (which I do not need but it is better looking than the Givi I have now). So why is it not in my garage you ask.....? They want what I think is too much for the bike. I made a ballpark offer and got no response so the 'ball may still be in play' and could come back at me with a counter- offer, a rejection or maybe even an acceptance. Will keep this in mind and it is not likely to sell this year anyway as there are leaves on the ground and it is brisk for most motorcycle riders. Of course there are advantages in buying locally including registration, no effort or expense in getting there and back with a bike, etc. And they are a great dealer so I really do not begrudge them some profit of course.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline PH14

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2020, 05:46:19 pm »
Went to the local Kawasaki emporium today to scope out a 2020 C-14. Not as terrible as I thought it would be but I really do not care for the semi- gloss silver paint. It was not actually flat but semi- gloss and so not horrible but still..... Noticed a bunch of Ducatis and other bikes around  that were also semi- gloss. I guess it is a 'thing'.

Also saw an immaculate 2016 in gray (Moondust gray they call it) which is a very nice color (and shiny too). Bike looks brand new, just under 7K miles (not even broken in yet), has both fobs, has extended warranty and new looking Michelin PR's (not sure which number PR). Also has 'comfort' and stock saddle as well as large Kawasaki top box (which I do not need but it is better looking than the Givi I have now). So why is it not in my garage you ask.....? They want what I think is too much for the bike. I made a ballpark offer and got no response so the 'ball may still be in play' and could come back at me with a counter- offer, a rejection or maybe even an acceptance. Will keep this in mind and it is not likely to sell this year anyway as there are leaves on the ground and it is brisk for most motorcycle riders. Of course there are advantages in buying locally including registration, no effort or expense in getting there and back with a bike, etc. And they are a great dealer so I really do not begrudge them some profit of course.

I hope they see the error of their ways soon and accept your offer. Two friends of mine have a different technique. When their offer is turned down they say the salesman can call them in a couple months when it hasn't sold. They then tell the salesman the price they will pay then, which is less than the original offer. Once recently got a Moto Guzzi that way, and paid substantially less than their original offer.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2020, 01:32:41 pm »
It is not what I would call matte, which Kawasaki calls it but more of a semi- gloss. There is definitely light reflection from the paint but it is just dull light 'blobs' without definition. I <believe> it is clear coated, and so should resist debris capture much better than a true flat paint would. But looking around the dealer, I can see that this is a significant trend, with Ducati having at least half of the bikes that were displayed being non- glossy (and flatter than the C-14). There was one in a beige/ tan color that was not bad looking which surprised me 'cause I would have expected to [not like] any of them.

The 2020 C-14 did not look nearly as bad as I expected due to the semi- gloss paint, and it is in a nice color IMO, a true silver not at all like an '08 for example. Coupled with the shiny black tank and some black plastic (leading edge fairing and mirror bodies are black also) it does not look too bad. If I tripped over a '19 or '20 for the right price, I might consider buying one. It might grow on me, or I could just get used to it and if not, because the tank is black, all the clothes could be removed and hit with a clear coat of urethane or even a color I would prefer-  a mid- scale gray has always been a favorite on motorcycles. BMW had a beautiful shade back in '07 I think on their GT series (the 1200 and 1300 GT).

To me, matte paint not only looks bad, but it even looks "damaged."  It is also very difficult to keep clean, and can be permanently stained by something as simple as a wet leaf sitting on it too long.  And the darker the color, the more nightmare matte paint becomes.

I have not actually seen the 2019/2020 in person (I doubt any of us have), so it might not really be "matte" silver but just lower gloss than typical?  Photographs just don't cut it for really knowing that much, although it is clearly not full gloss.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline maxtog

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2020, 04:35:14 pm »
It is not what I would call matte, which Kawasaki calls it but more of a semi- gloss. There is definitely light reflection from the paint but it is just dull light 'blobs' without definition.


That is exactly what I was expecting.  True matte is really yucky.  Semi-gloss is, well, passable.

Quote
I <believe> it is clear coated, and so should resist debris capture much better than a true flat paint would. But looking around the dealer, I can see that this is a significant trend


Yes, it was with cars, too.  Both true matte and semi-gloss.

Quote
The 2020 C-14 did not look nearly as bad as I expected due to the semi- gloss paint, and it is in a nice color IMO, a true silver not at all like an '08 for example


Yes.  Although it might have less gloss, it is still "Atomic Silver", which is the same as the 2011, the only true silver that Kawasaki has put on the C14.  The 2008 "Neutron" was more of a silvery light baby or stone blue.  You can see the difference here:  http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20250.0;attach=30201;image
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2020, 04:59:17 pm »
Yep, I have an '08 and it is definitely what I would call gray with a blue bias. The '11 is much closer to what I think of as a true silver.

The '19 and '20's may buff out to a gloss though what a nightmare inside the fairing fins and similar. That said, one could tape off specific areas and just buff the <generally> flat (body shape here, not flat paint) to a gloss. ??

That is exactly what I was expecting.  True matte is really yucky.  Semi-gloss is, well, passable.

Yes, it was with cars, too.  Both true matte and semi-gloss.

Yes.  Although it might have less gloss, it is still "Atomic Silver", which is the same as the 2011, the only true silver that Kawasaki has put on the C14.  The 2008 "Neutron" was more of a silvery light baby or stone blue.  You can see the difference here:  http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20250.0;attach=30201;image
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2020, 05:07:56 pm »
Well, I am not sure who is mistaken here and it may well be me. They have been at it a lot longer and spring is coming so...... The short answer is that they want more than I am willing to pay and so we do not have the 'makings' of a deal there. As I said, I just cannot pay more for a used '16 than what I can get a new '19 or '20 for. At some point, these things all melt down into a commodity and so have an externally placed value. The other problem, at least for me, is that that '16 has already used up ~ four years of potential warranty coverage. I really do not want a high- value C-14 without a warranty in place, especially one with ABS as the cost to fix them is high. It would not matter much to me after the bike is 9 years old but I really want those 9 years to be under my ownership, not split with another owner.

I hope they see the error of their ways soon and accept your offer. Two friends of mine have a different technique. When their offer is turned down they say the salesman can call them in a couple months when it hasn't sold. They then tell the salesman the price they will pay then, which is less than the original offer. Once recently got a Moto Guzzi that way, and paid substantially less than their original offer.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: I was not really in the market but....
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2020, 05:11:06 pm »
That said, one could tape off specific areas and just buff the <generally> flat (body shape here, not flat paint) to a gloss. ??

I am not sure you can buff a semi-gloss into being gloss.  And in the process, it would remove most of the protection.  I suspect that if one really wanted full gloss, it would require shooting a new layer or two of gloss clearcoat on it.  Not sure what the outcome would look like, though, with layers of-  primer, silver, semi-gloss, full-gloss.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc