Author Topic: Questions about mods  (Read 481 times)

Offline DavidMN

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Questions about mods
« on: November 18, 2020, 07:46:33 am »
I'm loving my new bike and I'm planning some great trips next summer.
I've read about some mods, but I'm seeking more info.

That exhaust cam timing mod for more low-end torque: how many degrees does it change and which way? Just curious, since mine already has great low-end torque. I don't know if it already has the mod.

The carb mod that eliminates the stumble at 2000 by changing jets and partly blocking the air intake: What jets are changed and to what size? Just curious since mine does not have a stumble at 2000.

If I was going to mod my carbs, the first thing I would want is better mileage. Sometimes it gets 43 mpg, but sometimes it drops to 37 maybe from a headwind. This is normal, but I want it better if possible. Has anyone machined the seats in the throttle slides to drop the jet needles .025" or so? I think that would improve mileage, but maybe not if it adversely affects throttle response. I would have to try it to find out unless someone already has and would tell me.

When I got my bike the lower links were already changed to adjustable ones and I don't have the stock links. I'm curious to know the stock center-to-center distance and how much it has been changed. Also, how do I set left and right exactly the same? Isn't that very important for the needle bearings?
2002 ZG1000

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Questions about mods
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2020, 08:59:16 am »
I'm loving my new bike and I'm planning some great trips next summer.
I've read about some mods, but I'm seeking more info.

x Welcome to the Forum.

That exhaust cam timing mod for more low-end torque: how many degrees does it change and which way? Just curious, since mine already has great low-end torque. I don't know if it already has the mod.

X Most of the info you ask is proprietary. But there is a way to confirm if you have the changes.
ie; The Special Cam sprocket has extra holes in it.
NOTE: Your great low end torque feeling is a seat of the pants feel. Only way to know is; Ride another C-10 {that has the Mods} to see if you have the same low end torque.

The carb mod that eliminates the stumble at 2000 by changing jets and partly blocking the air intake: What jets are changed and to what size? Just curious since mine does not have a stumble at 2000.

X The carbs would have stand pipes in them, and you would have a piece of foam in the right airbox inlet.
To check the carbs, see if you can blow air into the drain tubes.
If the mod was done, you will have airflow. If not, no mod.

If I was going to mod my carbs, the first thing I would want is better mileage. Sometimes it gets 43 mpg, but sometimes it drops to 37 maybe from a headwind. This is normal, but I want it better if possible. Has anyone machined the seats in the throttle slides to drop the jet needles .025" or so? I think that would improve mileage, but maybe not if it adversely affects throttle response. I would have to try it to find out unless someone already has and would tell me.

X I machined the needles themselves to lower them.  EZ if you have a small lathe. Didn't notice much change.
Added washers after that to adjust up. After my trial and error, I had Steve do my carbs and performance/torque immediately improved.
NOTE: Gas mileage is directionally proportional to the twist of the wrist. Start there for better mileage.

When I got my bike the lower links were already changed to adjustable ones and I don't have the stock links. I'm curious to know the stock center-to-center distance and how much it has been changed. Also, how do I set left and right exactly the same? Isn't that very important for the needle bearings?

X Most use a lowering rocker on a C-10 rather than a Lowering Link. Will try to get the stock Link dimension for you. Agreed, the lengths of the adjustable should be very close. Remove and compare them to get the dimensions to match.

X Ride safe, Ted

Offline Boomer

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Re: Questions about mods
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2020, 09:21:14 am »
For your first 2 questions I think you'll need to wait for "Steve in Sunny Fla" to see them and answer as he is the one who created them.
His site for the C10 is here
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/intake-and-exhaust

I'm sure others will chime in on the gas mileage but I doubt if you will get much better from a carburetted bike than what you are already getting.
Mine does 35-40Mpg(US) depending on how I ride it.

Hopefully someone has the measurements for the stock "dogbones". I assume that your adjustable dogbones are Soupys.
https://soupysperformance.com/soupys-kawasaki-concours-1000-zg1000-1986-2006-lowering-links.html
If no-one chimes in I'll see if I can find a set amongst my parts mountain and measure them.
George "Boomer" Garratt
Wickford, UK


Offline DavidMN

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Re: Questions about mods
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2020, 02:28:47 pm »
Wow, thanks for the responses! You're actually trying to help me.

The cam mod would be interesting to try if I knew what it was, but having to pay for it seems foolish unless I really needed it. I guess next time I have the valve cover off I'll check the holes in the sprocket. I'll also check the valve timing with a degree wheel to see if it matches the stock specs in the manual. If I knew what the mod does, I'd just mod my own sprocket.

The carb mod I meant was not the stand tubes one, that's to prevent hydrolock. I meant the 5-minute mod to stop stumble and add torque. I don't perceive a need for more torque, so I wouldn't buy the mod, but it might be interesting to try. Maybe my bike already has it, but I need to know which jets are changed and what size they are.
On my proposed mileage mod, please don't tell me to just drive slower. Mileage shouldn't drop off as easily as it does.
2002 ZG1000

Offline route66tc

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Re: Questions about mods
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2020, 03:06:36 pm »
Hi David
You're asking for the secret recipe that is kept under lock and key and surrounded by armed guards and dogs with nasty attitudes.  Steve in Sunny Florida is the guy that came up with these mods and makes his living providing C10 and C14 owners with mods to improve their bikes.  He'd be cutting his own throat to tell all the secrets that he's worked hard on over the years.  Steve is a stand up guy and deserves the support that he gets. Please consider giving him your business.  Here's a link to his site below.  HTH
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/

Offline DavidMN

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Re: Questions about mods
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2020, 05:46:37 pm »
My third and fourth questions about jet needle position and length of stock suspension arm have nothing to do with that website.

I'm not interested in buying anything, but clearly you are very keen on selling. Only the first two of my questions might involve that website. I don't believe the answers should be secrets. If they really want to help people, tell them the answers. How many times should someone be paid for some work done 10-20 years ago? Sooner or later I would say enough is enough.
2002 ZG1000

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Questions about mods
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2020, 06:27:56 pm »
Ok, your right.
Enough is enough.
Not answering your questions as you clearly don't understand the answers that have been given you..

Offline Stasch

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Re: Questions about mods
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2020, 04:18:38 am »
DavidNM, This group is seeing quite a few new owners to used C10's which is great.  Along with that is a recurrence of topics such as air pods on the carbs and other mods that will hopefully add 50 HP to the bike so it can run with the sport bikes - which ain't NEVER gonna happen.

Do you like to perpetually work on the bike through trial and error (which is great if you like that kind of thing) or ride your C10 in the best known nick available? 

If you haven't yet R&R'd your C10 carb bank, you will find its bit of a chore.

If your answer to the above is the latter, then what the fellas are telling you is what you need.

They don't sell anything and are giving you the best time tested C10 answers and solutions to your questions to save you from trying to learn this on your own the hard way rather than getting 'er done the first time in the right way and enjoying your ride.

Quote
If I was going to mod my carbs, the first thing I would want is better mileage. Sometimes it gets 43 mpg, but sometimes it drops to 37 maybe from a headwind. This is normal, but I want it better if possible. Has anyone machined the seats in the throttle slides to drop the jet needles .025" or so? I think that would improve mileage, but maybe not if it adversely affects throttle response. I would have to try it to find out unless someone already has and would tell me.

Your numbers are almost exactly the same as my C10 in the same conditions.  MPG can even vary between different C10's on the same run.  Lots of variables there.  A 14% drop in fuel mileage for a sporty run or a sustained 80 mph freeway run into strong headwinds costs pennies in additional fuel cost.  Owning a motorcycle, even a C10, has so much more cost than that.

Quote
I don't believe the answers should be secrets. If they really want to help people, tell them the answers. How many times should someone be paid for some work done 10-20 years ago? Sooner or later I would say enough is enough.

You want something for free that someone put blood, sweat and tears into development - not knowing if they would ever see a return.  I wouldn't keep showing up to work if I had to do it for free all of a sudden.  That would be worse than getting fired. 

You can play with the carb settings to infinity - nothing wrong with that.  It is extremely unlikely you will find a better solution than what some seriously talented people have already worked through over a period of years / decades.  I can't even imagine the hours and costs involved. 

Trying it your self or paying for already tested and developed work is your choice - neither of which is wrong. 

Demanding option 2 for free, not so much.
Stan Visser - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - > C10 STUFF FOR SALE - Parts List

He IS a racer, hence the forward lean!!  by: Mettler1

Offline route66tc

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Re: Questions about mods
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2020, 04:41:18 am »
Please don't take our responses the wrong way.  People here will help you with your bike.  All we're trying to say is, that this is Steve's living we're talking about here.  Call up Kentucky Fried Chicken and ask them for the recipe so you can make it at home.  They've been employing folks for years with that recipe.  IIRC it really is in a vault somewhere.  I'm quite sure that whomever you talk to at the headquarters would find your request entertaining to say the least.  One last thing.  Steve doesn't have to pay folks to say good things about him or his work.

Offline m in sc

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Re: Questions about mods
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2020, 08:21:39 am »
leaning the needle will absolutely affect the way it runs... in a negative way.  Its a bike that was 1st released in 1986 with essentially NO changes. You aren't going to get much better mileage, i mean, sorry, just isn't going to happen unless you really ride it conservatively.

If anything, id suggest the 7th gear upgrade to overdrive 6th a bit if you are doing longer runs. end of day, my stock fuel injected '14 cb1100 gets about the same mileage.  rebuild the carbs, tune the pilot circuit, add the overflow tubes and call it done. I actually added a bit of fuel to the pilot circuit and i have no 2k stumble on either one of my c10's, but have the fuel screws set in a bit more to correct the circuit velocity. I also don't care much about mileage but it didn't affect it enough to notice.

Only way you're really going to get much better mileage... is with a more modern bike.  Even then, not all that much better. 

or, cut a check to Steve. People swear by his work. I never used him so cant address it personally, but have no reason to doubt hes good at what he does.

my .02
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 09:43:33 am by m in sc »
I break and fix stuff.  99&2k c10s and a bunch of vintage stuff.

Offline gpineau

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Re: Questions about mods
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2020, 08:03:13 pm »
David,
 
I'm working on my 3rd Connie and I still haven't figured out if it is preforming to optimum or is it just good enough.  I like working on bikes so most mods are not much of a stretch for me . EXCEPT one.  I hate pulling the carbs. The ways the carbs are sandwiched between the airbox and the head are a real pain to pull and get back in  place. And if the bike is a few years old, rubber hardens and things just don't fit right any more.  The electrical grounds are not that big a deal.  you can do that in less than a day.  But the Cam mods and the carb mods... I would put those off till you decide you actually need them. If it were me I would just ride it for a season, and take mental notes about performance and what you like and don't like. The if you feel compelled to make improvements then seek out those with experience in those areas.

Just my opinion.
2 Connies,  1 Yamaha Vstar 950 Touring.
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Offline Nosmo

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Re: Questions about mods
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2020, 09:02:52 pm »
I have several of Steve's major mods:  The "7th gear mod" mentioned above, (The SINGLE BEST MOD YOU COULD EVER DO), the 2- minute mod for the carbs, and the cam timing resets.  All of these combined make it a whole different bike.  All parts and information gladly paid for, and installed myself.  I had a few questions about the 7th gear mod, and called Steve and got another load of valuable info to get the install done.  All of this I maybe could have figured out myself in about two years worth of dicking around, brainstorming, parts searching, experimenting, throwing tools, breaking things, having the bike sitting in the basement un-ridable, perhaps ruining a couple of sets of carbs with mods that didn't work, etc., etc.  I get a steady 45 MPG on the highway if I don't spank her too hard, but I can also put it in 4th gear and ride the back roads all day long without shifting, from 35 to 70 MPH if I choose.

Every penny paid to Shouldabeen engineering was money well spent. ;)

Your opinions may differ.

Keep in mind that the Connie fairing is not really an aerodynamic speed fairing.  It's more for weather protection.  So, you've got a nearly 700 pound, carburetted litre bike designed almost 40 years ago, pushing the proverbial barn door through the air, so fuel mileage in the mid-40's isn't all that bad.
A life undreamed is a waste.  A dream unlived is a sin.

Offline DavidMN

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Re: Questions about mods
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2020, 12:24:06 pm »
I've been fixing motorcycles for people since 2009, all makes and models, mostly street bikes. The most common need is for carb work, so I've gotten quite good at that. I love taking a bike that is running poorly or not at all and making it run perfectly. I get a lot of customers telling me "it has never run this good in all the years I've owned it".

I already did the carbs on my Concours 1000 and they were not difficult for me. It runs perfectly and averages about 39 MPG.

I would much rather have 50 MPG than 50 more HP, but realistically I might get a 45 MPG average. I won't be trying that until next summer. I have had success with getting more mileage on a 1983 V65 Magna and a 1980 GL1100 Goldwing, so I think it is possible. What I got with those bikes was about 5 MPG improvement. The throttle response required a few more degrees of rotation, but power seemed the same as before.
 
Now when the temps will soon be staying below 40 here in Minnesota, I won't be riding much. I will put Stabil in the gas and run the bike for 15 minutes at least once a month to keep the carbs from going sour. That small volume of gas in the carbs is what goes bad quickly, the larger volume in the tank lasts many times longer.
2002 ZG1000

Offline JP

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Re: Questions about mods
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2020, 11:01:24 am »
That exhaust cam timing mod for more low-end torque: how many degrees does it change and which way? Just curious, since mine already has great low-end torque. I don't know if it already has the mod.
I machined mine advanced 3.5deg (7 total).
I also do everything I can myself. Except carbs!
Steve removes the numbers from the needles so can't help you there.
I wish you success.

Offline m in sc

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Re: Questions about mods
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2020, 11:15:24 am »
you can measure them and refer to the sudco catalog. 
I break and fix stuff.  99&2k c10s and a bunch of vintage stuff.