Author Topic: A thread about nothing at all....  (Read 496649 times)

Offline gPink

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Re: A thread about nothing at all....
« Reply #3240 on: June 21, 2018, 09:42:29 am »
  ...and up close at that.  8)

9) Bigger...become the man in death that you never were in life.

 :o  :rotflmao:
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: A thread about nothing at all....
« Reply #3241 on: June 21, 2018, 02:53:56 pm »
I really hate to put this in a Thread about nothing at all because I really think this IS something.... but here goes:

Koko the gorilla died last Tuesday at the age of 46. For those not familiar with her or that story, Koko was a female lowland gorilla, adopted and raised by Francine Patterson as part of her PhD thesis which was based on the idea of actually getting a great ape to 'talk' with humans. This project started in 1972 and has been basically on-going ever since.

There had been many trials to teach some of the great apes to 'talk' in the past but almost all involved trying to teach Chimpanzees to use vocal speech. All were failures, in a large part due apparently to the fact that the other apes (besides us on this forum) just do not have the mental speech center development to actually 'talk'. They emitted a few screeching words but as far as a conversation or exchange of ideas, that never happened.

Ms. Patterson choose a different route; first she chose a gorilla, believing them more intelligent than chimpanzees. But the big break- through was that she taught Koko ASL, American Sign Language rather than vocal speech. And Koko learned..... far beyond anyone's expectations. Beyond her actual language abilities, she gave great insight into her cognitive and reasoning abilities including making up her own compound words ('cookie- rocks' for stale cookies, 'water- birds' for seagulls and other instances) and the truly fascinating ability to lie in order to deflect blame for something she had done. Lying is an extremely high- order action that takes a lot of raw reasoning power to figure out how to paint a false 'picture' to mislead others and actually have them think that what they perceive as reality is not really correct. A few years after getting Koko, Ms. Patterson also procured a young male gorilla (as an infant, just as Koko was when this experiment was started) and to everyone's amazement, Koko started teaching Michael (the male gorilla) sign language. Koko was also given many different tests including I.Q. standardized tests for young humans and actually scored above 100, which is average for humans.

Another story I remember from many years ago is that Koko loved Coca- cola but was normally not allowed to have it because of tooth decay. But every now and again, she would get loose on campus (again, this was a research project) and run up to anyone / everyone, signing that she wanted money. Of course most people did not know what she wanted but some did and they gave her change; once Koko had enough (could she actually count it??) she would go to a vending machine, insert the money and have herself a refreshing Coke.  :rotflmao:  Smarter than a lot of people who do not know enough to come in out of the rain IMO.  ;) ;D

Brian
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Offline Rhino

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Re: A thread about nothing at all....
« Reply #3242 on: June 21, 2018, 03:14:55 pm »
That begs the question how much money do you give to a begging 500 lbs gorilla? As much as she wants!

I really hate to put this in a Thread about nothing at all because I really think this IS something.... but here goes:

Koko the gorilla died last Tuesday at the age of 46. For those not familiar with her or that story, Koko was a female lowland gorilla, adopted and raised by Francine Patterson as part of her PhD thesis which was based on the idea of actually getting a great ape to 'talk' with humans. This project started in 1972 and has been basically on-going ever since.

There had been many trials to teach some of the great apes to 'talk' in the past but almost all involved trying to teach Chimpanzees to use vocal speech. All were failures, in a large part due apparently to the fact that the other apes (besides us on this forum) just do not have the mental speech center development to actually 'talk'. They emitted a few screeching words but as far as a conversation or exchange of ideas, that never happened.

Ms. Patterson choose a different route; first she chose a gorilla, believing them more intelligent than chimpanzees. But the big break- through was that she taught Koko ASL, American Sign Language rather than vocal speech. And Koko learned..... far beyond anyone's expectations. Beyond her actual language abilities, she gave great insight into her cognitive and reasoning abilities including making up her own compound words ('cookie- rocks' for stale cookies, 'water- birds' for seagulls and other instances) and the truly fascinating ability to lie in order to deflect blame for something she had done. Lying is an extremely high- order action that takes a lot of raw reasoning power to figure out how to paint a false 'picture' to mislead others and actually have them think that what they perceive as reality is not really correct. A few years after getting Koko, Ms. Patterson also procured a young male gorilla (as an infant, just as Koko was when this experiment was started) and to everyone's amazement, Koko started teaching Michael (the male gorilla) sign language. Koko was also given many different tests including I.Q. standardized tests for young humans and actually scored above 100, which is average for humans.

Another story I remember from many years ago is that Koko loved Coca- cola but was normally not allowed to have it because of tooth decay. But every now and again, she would get loose on campus (again, this was a research project) and run up to anyone / everyone, signing that she wanted money. Of course most people did not know what she wanted but some did and they gave her change; once Koko had enough (could she actually count it??) she would go to a vending machine, insert the money and have herself a refreshing Coke.  :rotflmao:  Smarter than a lot of people who do not know enough to come in out of the rain IMO.  ;) ;D

Brian

Offline Conrad

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Re: A thread about nothing at all....
« Reply #3243 on: June 22, 2018, 06:02:59 am »
  ...and up close at that.  8)

9) Bigger...become the man in death that you never were in life.

I told my wife about this. I didn't know that her eyes could roll back that far!    :rotflmao:
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Offline fartymarty

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Re: A thread about nothing at all....
« Reply #3244 on: June 22, 2018, 10:12:18 am »
I told my wife about this. I didn't know that her eyes could roll back that far!    :rotflmao:
You mean in ecstatic anticipation of your demise and growth in the afterlife?   ;D

With my luck, my wife would enjoy the new me a few times and then remember something I did in the past that ticked her off really good
and she would probably take the new me and leave me on the curb outside of a gay bar.

Offline Conniesaki

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Re: A thread about nothing at all....
« Reply #3245 on: June 22, 2018, 02:07:34 pm »
You mean in ecstatic anticipation of your demise and growth in the afterlife?   ;D

With my luck, my wife would enjoy the new me a few times and then remember something I did in the past that ticked her off really good
and she would probably take the new me and leave me on the curb outside of a gay bar.

Oh boy, I don't think anybody's gonna be able to hear you screaming inside your new jar.

Assuming you actually are screaming.



Man, this is one sick forum.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: A thread about nothing at all....
« Reply #3246 on: June 22, 2018, 02:22:31 pm »
Look at the bright side, he may get new and exciting experiences..... well, maybe at least new.

 :rotflmao:

If you posted something like this on FaceTwit Marty, there would be seven million protests (hates, whatever FaceTwit does to punish those with an opinion..... that does not flow in the correct direction of the moment) and probably be banned from the US by now. But that might actually work out OK for you 'cause if you were declared a non- citizen, you could just stay where you are and get free college.

But that sure is an..... unusual 'accessory', how did you find it? Were you searching or did it just 'pop up' in your normal shopping? Hmmmmm?   ;) ;D

Brian

Oh boy, I don't think anybody's gonna be able to hear you screaming inside your new jar.

Assuming you actually are screaming.



Man, this is one sick forum.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline fartymarty

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Re: A thread about nothing at all....
« Reply #3247 on: June 22, 2018, 03:07:59 pm »
Assuming you actually are screaming.

You Assensitive lout!  ;D

disclaimer: Although the rules of this forum and the sword wielder in chief frown on name calling, I would point out that
I'm not really calling Conniesaki a name, but rather assknowl-- acknowledging his pun-ish play on words through a joke name calling.


Man, this is one sick forum.

Well  DUH!, are you just now finding that out?
Still things being relative, we aren't that bad really. I mean it was Mrs Conrad that rolled her eyes back
in her head in ecstasy thinking about a bigger Mr C.

Offline fartymarty

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Re: A thread about nothing at all....
« Reply #3248 on: June 22, 2018, 03:22:50 pm »
But that sure is an..... unusual 'accessory', how did you find it? Were you searching or did it just 'pop up' in your normal shopping? Hmmmmm?   ;) ;D

 :-X  :banana

Don't get jealous Brian, you're still the only man that's ever 'popped up' and hugged me.
Only now you are starting to worry that I enjoyed it. :stirpot:

Bone stimulator indeed.


Offline tweeter55

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Re: A thread about nothing at all....
« Reply #3249 on: June 22, 2018, 03:26:08 pm »
 For 217 pages this thread was going so well and with in short order has gone to HE double toothpicks. LOL
Do not try to live forever on this earth. You will not succeed.

Offline fartymarty

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Re: A thread about nothing at all....
« Reply #3250 on: June 22, 2018, 03:36:20 pm »
For 217 pages this thread was going so well and with in short order has gone to HE double toothpicks. LOL

Well OK, sorry. But it was Brian that brought up FaceTwit and ruined the whole thing.  ;)
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That Koko what a great story, I'm sorry she is gone. 

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: A thread about nothing at all....
« Reply #3251 on: June 22, 2018, 04:20:05 pm »
Yeah, it was not you planting a photo of that..... 'thing' and then mentioning leaving it at a gay bar.....  ::)   Man, do we ever NEED that face- palm emoticon or what?

I found Koko fascinating; I think I read about the story way back when (before she had reached adulthood) in Nat. Geo. or similar. Then there were the occasional TV show or spotlight on her and I was always fascinated at how much and how fast she learned. The whole event gave me, and I think most of us, new insight into just how smart our ape brethren really are. Koko reasoned, deduced, concluded and then executed some really high- level mental abilities.

The lying incident was especially illuminating IMO: Koko was acting like a gorilla and broke the sink in her quarters. when Penny found the broken sink, she asked Koko what happened. Now Koko has had several assistants over the years and so was quite familiar with quite a few people who worked with her and were part of her life and space. Now for the clever part: Koko blamed one of these assistants for breaking the sink. When pressed, Koko expanded by using more words to describe the event, always careful to point out it was a particular assistant. Now that simply shows an extremely high level of mental ability that was thought to belong to man only but Koko was able to lie effectively, with purpose and an obvious understanding that she was deliberately misleading Penny and 'shifting the blame'. We know cats and dogs often know when they make a mistake and get caught but this would be like a dog backing up and pointing to the other dog next to it when the 'deed' was found. And I just do not believe our four- legged friends can reason on that level. But Koko could.

It would be a shame if this work is not continued with other great apes. Who knows, maybe an Orangutan is even smarter yet? There are four great apes, Chimps, Gorillas, Orangutans and Humans. Personally, I would like to know just how smart our distant 'cousins' really are.

BTW: this is just my personal view and I am not foisting it on anyone; for those who do not believe in evolution, a fair wind and a safe harbor, I have no conflict with that view at all. In fact, when anthropologists come up with new 'facts' and state them with no uncertainty, I find it a bit annoying because while there could be the strongest suspicion, believe and seemingly overwhelming evidence, in the end there are too many holes in our understanding of evolution to state very many things as absolute facts IMO. I would rather hear something such as 'the current thinking is that.......' or similar.

Brian (who may have evolved beyond the other apes but I have to wonder if any of them would have fallen down the stairs....?)

Well OK, sorry. But it was Brian that brought up FaceTwit and ruined the whole thing.  ;)
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That Koko what a great story, I'm sorry she is gone.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: A thread about nothing at all....
« Reply #3252 on: June 22, 2018, 04:21:06 pm »
<shrugs shoulders> With a little effort, we can knock this thread back off track where it belongs.

Brian

For 217 pages this thread was going so well and with in short order has gone to HE double toothpicks. LOL
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: A thread about nothing at all....
« Reply #3253 on: June 22, 2018, 04:23:40 pm »
Oh no, do not try to hand that on ME. I was hugging Mary Ann, it was you who jumped in the way.

hehehehehe   That 'capture hug' is kinda' funny. At least one out of three 'group huggers' thinks so but I think Mary Ann finds it amusing also. Fun is where you find it.....

Brian

:-X  :banana

Don't get jealous Brian, you're still the only man that's ever 'popped up' and hugged me.
Only now you are starting to worry that I enjoyed it. :stirpot:

Bone stimulator indeed.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: A thread about nothing at all....
« Reply #3254 on: June 22, 2018, 07:26:10 pm »
Today is the anniversary of the first day of Operation Barbarosa (22 June, 1941). Big day in Soviet history, big day in German history.

Brian
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