Author Topic: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?  (Read 12529 times)

Offline katata1100

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TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« on: December 24, 2011, 11:05:41 am »
Doesn't matter whether it is 8 degrees or 30 degrees- get the flashing low battery sing on my computer. Yesterday morning, got both when it was 8 degrees, otherwise I get just the back tire when it is 30 degrees. Riding for about 5-10 minutes makes it go off. Is this normal or should I take to the dealer.And, if I take to dealer, is this a good time for new tires (both are worn but serviceable). My bike is a '11 with 6k miles.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2011, 11:18:40 am »
It is common and it <may> be normal but it is not correct, at least in my opinion. The batteries inside the sensors drop a little in voltage when it is cold and that trips the "low battery" aspect of the control chip on the TPS sensor itself. The sensors still read the tire's pressure, and when they warm a bit the warning will clear itself but I found it quite annoying on my bike and had both sensors replaced under warranty.

You can also clear the warning (and any other warning such as low fuel but not outright errors) by pushing and holding the top button while pressing and releasing the bottom button on the dash. The warning will clear the screen and then the red warning LED on the left side of the display will be lit. Unfortunately this resets itself each time the ignition is turned off so in the case of the tire sensor warnings it can display multiple times per day. Also, you have to clear each error individually so it has to be done one time for both the front and rear warnings.

Some dealers have mounted new tires at little or no charge if they are replacing the sensors under warranty anyway. You could ask about it and see how it goes.

Brian


Doesn't matter whether it is 8 degrees or 30 degrees- get the flashing low battery sing on my computer. Yesterday morning, got both when it was 8 degrees, otherwise I get just the back tire when it is 30 degrees. Riding for about 5-10 minutes makes it go off. Is this normal or should I take to the dealer.And, if I take to dealer, is this a good time for new tires (both are worn but serviceable). My bike is a '11 with 6k miles.
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Offline So Cal Joe

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2011, 03:59:13 pm »
If it clears up after a few miles it is normal. Taking it to the dealer will do nothing.By the time you get there it will be off anyway
Even if you can get them to replace the unit the new one will do the same in cold weather.

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2011, 04:20:49 pm »
The new TPS sensors in my bike have not given the warning in the cold since they have been installed. The warning usually starts after a couple of years of use, not when they are brand new. I routinely use my bike down into and below the 20F range and again, new sensors (more precisely, new batteries) will not show the warning even in the cold.

Brian

If it clears up after a few miles it is normal. Taking it to the dealer will do nothing.By the time you get there it will be off anyway
Even if you can get them to replace the unit the new one will do the same in cold weather.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Z71

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2011, 04:39:36 pm »
Why can't Kawasaki come up with decent and reasonably priced TPS sensors?  What so special about them being on a motorcycle?  These types of sensors are being used on millions of cars and they do not fail after a year or two.

Offline stlheadake

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2011, 11:12:18 pm »
Why can't Kawasaki come up with decent and reasonably priced TPS sensors?  What so special about them being on a motorcycle?  These types of sensors are being used on millions of cars and they do not fail after a year or two.

That's not completely accurate.  I believe the Scions, and at least one other brand have been having similar issues at one point.  Mine are doing it too, I had them replaced last winter.  It seems NOW they need to mess up again.  I'm going to take it in again, see what they say.  Temps here have been in the 30s.  NO SNOW, but 30s just the same. 
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Offline jjsC6

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2011, 05:19:16 am »
If it clears up after a few miles it is normal. Taking it to the dealer will do nothing.By the time you get there it will be off anyway
Even if you can get them to replace the unit the new one will do the same in cold weather.

I disagree on both counts.  Mine started doing the same thing at a year old.  It would come and go on cool days, and go progressively worse over a few months.  It always stopped while I was riding, but I was tired of having to screw with it.  So on one ride I took a picture of the message with the odometer reading showing.  Then a weak or so later I took another picture of it. Then I went to the dealer and showed them the picture.  They replaced it under warranty.  It has never done it again, so obviously replacing it with a new one fixed it.
Jim
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Offline Shoe

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2011, 07:52:59 am »
Mine did not do it the first year. It does it consistently every time the weather is cold. And goes away after the tires warm up. It might be a good idea to take some pictures and bring it in for replacement if you are getting close to the end of you warranty. That way you have fresh TPS's for a while!
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Offline So Cal Joe

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2011, 08:04:40 am »
I disagree on both counts.  Mine started doing the same thing at a year old.  It would come and go on cool days, and go progressively worse over a few months.  It always stopped while I was riding, but I was tired of having to screw with it.  So on one ride I took a picture of the message with the odometer reading showing.  Then a weak or so later I took another picture of it. Then I went to the dealer and showed them the picture.  They replaced it under warranty.  It has never done it again, so obviously replacing it with a new one fixed it.
I have to disagree with you. , I had the front unit replaced July 8th, than November I got the low battery warning again, they replaced the unit again on  November 17th and the other morning when I lift in about 27 degrees it showed LOW BATYTERY for a few miles then cleared up. I have had 2 new units in 1 year.

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Offline lather

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2011, 10:10:23 am »
It's the passivation layer and it is a compromise: we could not have 5 year batteries without it. The same electrochemistry that makes the batteries last longer than other technologies causes the temporary voltage diip that triggers the warning. The way I see it the ecu should have been programmed to wait longer before triggering the warning. That would mean looking at psi --- for maybe 2 to five minutes when it's cold out but I think that would be preferable to having to perform the double button reset with winter gloves on..

Here is some info on lithium ion and passivation. It is about rechargeable camcoder batts but I think the basic info is applicable to our TPS.
http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/battery/lithium.html 
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Offline lather

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2011, 11:53:00 am »
Here is an interesting quote about passivation in LI/SO2 (sulpher dioxide) I think the TPS batts are LI/MN02 (manganese dioxide) but I suspect the finding  is still applicable.

"Voltage delay characteristics in LI/SO2 cells were tabulated by Bro
(1). Discharge at low temperatures following high temperature storage
exacerbates the delay. High temperature storage increases the rate of the
lithium passivation layer formation and the low temperatures limit diffusion
processes, thereby increasing the polarization of the passivation layer."

What this means is that some typical riding and storage habits work against us. Heading out on a cold morning then parking it in the warmer afternoon or even worse, a warm garage.
 

The quote was from http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA193243
it is a PDF
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2011, 02:00:58 pm »
Yep, all good info. but I don't think the problem is in the ECU, it is in the controller inside the TPS itself. The sensor just reports the low battery fault, not what the battery voltage is.

The tire pressure is still sent and displayed even during the 'low sensor battery' warning- clear the warning and the current tire pressure is shown in the pressure display.

Kawasaki could work around the problem by not displaying the low voltage warning until something like 10 minutes after starting- that would be enough time to clear the great majority of false errors that we seem to be suffering through though.

Brian


It's the passivation layer and it is a compromise: we could not have 5 year batteries without it. The same electrochemistry that makes the batteries last longer than other technologies causes the temporary voltage diip that triggers the warning. The way I see it the ecu should have been programmed to wait longer before triggering the warning. That would mean looking at psi --- for maybe 2 to five minutes when it's cold out but I think that would be preferable to having to perform the double button reset with winter gloves on..

Here is some info on lithium ion and passivation. It is about rechargeable camcoder batts but I think the basic info is applicable to our TPS.
http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/battery/lithium.html
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline jjsC6

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2011, 06:33:23 am »
I have to disagree with you. , I had the front unit replaced July 8th, than November I got the low battery warning again, they replaced the unit again on  November 17th and the other morning when I lift in about 27 degrees it showed LOW BATYTERY for a few miles then cleared up. I have had 2 new units in 1 year.

Okay, maybe we should not have disagreed with each other.  Let's put it another way.  for most of us, when we got a new one installed, the problem went away.  For you it did not.  I had the same thing happen on my Goldwing at just over two years old.  They put in a new one and the problem is gone also.
Jim
2010 Concours - Sold Feb 2013
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2011 Ninja 1000, 2013 BMW 1600 GT, 2012 Ducati Panigale

Offline sycamoredave

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2011, 02:44:15 pm »
I don't really care what the problem is, it is a pain.  After discussions with the dealer, it became clear that the TPS is an ongoing challenge.  Fixing it now is fine, but in a couple years you will probably be repeating the process, only this time on your tab.  I just had them turn the thing off for good, and use a $2 tire gauge to check the pressure.  Done.  Now if they could come up with a way to turn off KIPASS...   ::)

Ride safe...

Offline okxd45

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2011, 03:01:14 pm »
I don't really care what the problem is, it is a pain.  After discussions with the dealer, it became clear that the TPS is an ongoing challenge.  Fixing it now is fine, but in a couple years you will probably be repeating the process, only this time on your tab.  I just had them turn the thing off for good, and use a $2 tire gauge to check the pressure.  Done.  Now if they could come up with a way to turn off KIPASS...   ::)

Ride safe...
Now if they could come up with a way to turn off KIPASS........
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