Author Topic: spline lubrication  (Read 5783 times)

Offline yoman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 214
  • Country: 00
spline lubrication
« on: February 03, 2012, 07:43:37 am »
Does anyone have detailed info on lubricating the splines on a C-10? I am getting ready to pull the rear wheel and thought while I was there I could get at the splines and suspension link.

Im sure that I could figure it out but why go at it unarmed.

Thanks, Tom
2002 Semi-naked Connie

Offline George R. Young

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
  • Country: ca
    • Concours 2001 Farkles
Re: spline lubrication
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2012, 09:31:07 am »
There are splines inside the shaft, to allow a bit of in-out motion when the wheel moves, and splines to couple the rear wheel to the drive.

Both should be greased but the ones in the shaft are particularly important because they slide under load.
65 CB160 (67-69), 69 350GTR (69-72), 72 R5, 73 RD350 (73-84), 82 XZ550 Vision (84-03), 01 Concours C10 (03-19), 89 EX250 (11-14), 00 SV650S (14-16), 03 SV650S (19-)

Offline throb

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 214
  • Country: us
Re: spline lubrication
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2012, 07:29:33 am »
You don't want to use regular grease there.  Go to your nearest Honda dealer and get a tube of "Moly 60 Paste".  It's about $10 for the tube, but it has a much higher molybdenum concentration and is really the only thing you want to use there because of the high load and heat generated by the splines.  Regular grease will not adequately protect the splines.

http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Product/pro-honda-moly-60-paste/19-1063.aspx
'05 Concours, SISF's 2 min jet mod and exhaust cam sprocket, snarf's block off plates, risers, SS lines, fork brace, T-Cro's stick coils & shift linkage, ZZR1200 rear shock, MS rear wheel.

Offline SteveJ.

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 806
  • Country: 00
  • Mid Flowriduh a.a.d.
Re: spline lubrication
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2012, 08:45:52 am »
You don't want to use regular grease there.  Go to your nearest Honda dealer and get a tube of "Moly 60 Paste".  It's about $10 for the tube, but it has a much higher molybdenum concentration and is really the only thing you want to use there because of the high load and heat generated by the splines.  Regular grease will not adequately protect the splines.

http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Product/pro-honda-moly-60-paste/19-1063.aspx
I'm not so sure I agree with the above. Yes, the Moly 60 paste is a good premium grease to use.

I used other types of premium grease, not necessarily with a high moly content for the first 100k mi on my bike. Splines on the rear hub look like new, the ones on the shaft look really good. Bike now has 159k miles on it.

I think the fact that the splines get lubed helps a lot, with the moly 60 paste being a superior product to do that with.

Any bike chewing up splines with 30-70k miles would seem to be ill-maintained, but maybe there is another explanation.

BTW, this bike is not babied.
Perfection Is A Fantasy, Improvement Is Possible(Margie J)
'99 Conk: 227k mi, '98 KLR650 back from Cal
COG 5603, IBA 19921, CBMMA 50 (Cheap B@st@rds Motorcycle Maintenance Assoc, 14 year member)

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1111
  • Country: 00
    • Shoodaben Engineering
Re: spline lubrication
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2012, 05:07:16 pm »
  If you study the driveshaft slipjoint, you'll find that kawasaki has made provision for it to beconstantly lubed by the final drive oil. Don't believe me? Go take one apart, notice the oring locations, and the oil hole in the input shaft. That said, greasing is fine, but it's going to get cut with the final drive oil anyway. The real issue on greasing is the drive spline to the cush drive. Steve

Offline George R. Young

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
  • Country: ca
    • Concours 2001 Farkles
Re: spline lubrication
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2012, 09:27:38 pm »
Gee.

It looks to me like there's an oil seal (92049B) on the pinion gear shaft to keep final drive oil from swimming upstream.

And there's a blurb on p. 10-14 of the manual about using high temperature grease on the splines inside the propeller shaft joint (42034A) that the pinion gear shaft joint (42034) slides in.

And there's an O-ring (92055C) on the outside of the pinion gear shaft joint which fits inside the propeller shaft joint to keep said grease in and presumably other stuff out.

So I've studied it but I just can't see how final drive oil gets to those splines.
65 CB160 (67-69), 69 350GTR (69-72), 72 R5, 73 RD350 (73-84), 82 XZ550 Vision (84-03), 01 Concours C10 (03-19), 89 EX250 (11-14), 00 SV650S (14-16), 03 SV650S (19-)

Offline Rick Hall

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
  • Country: us
  • "One Slip" Momentary Lapse of Reason --Pink Floyd
Re: spline lubrication
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2012, 10:07:11 pm »
... So I've studied it but I just can't see how final drive oil gets to those splines.

Neither can I, but those splines on my bike are always wet from the 90wt pumpkin oil  :-\ Not in a continual bath, but they are wet.

I do grease the cush drive splines every time the rear wheel is off. Typically a dollop of CV joint grease (high moly content) about the size of a pea. Spread it around the splines with a Q-Tip or a plumbers acid brush. Excessive lube will get flung off, and will appear on the outer rim of the wheel, so don't get too commando when greasing.

Rick
Rick Hall     1994 ZG 1000 "Sam"      xCOG #1914 (CO)
  GfNi H.P.   DOD #2040   1kQSPT 14.16   IBA #3274
    The Kawasaki Concours page at: www.zggtr.org

Offline George R. Young

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
  • Country: ca
    • Concours 2001 Farkles
Re: spline lubrication
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2012, 06:56:13 am »
Neither can I, but those splines on my bike are always wet from the 90wt pumpkin oil  :-\ Not in a continual bath, but they are wet. . . .
I put grease on the propeller joint/pinion gear shaft joint splines whenever I change the rear tire, nothing special just what I have on the shelf. When next tire change comes, the grease that I put in look pretty soupy and liquid because it has done its lubricating job, and it gets wiped out and replaced.

When I have the final drive off, there's no flow of oil coming out past the pinion gear shaft joint.
65 CB160 (67-69), 69 350GTR (69-72), 72 R5, 73 RD350 (73-84), 82 XZ550 Vision (84-03), 01 Concours C10 (03-19), 89 EX250 (11-14), 00 SV650S (14-16), 03 SV650S (19-)

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1111
  • Country: 00
    • Shoodaben Engineering
Re: spline lubrication
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2012, 07:53:30 am »
  there's a thru hole in the input shaft directly into the innards of the pumpkin. If you pull your final drive and place it with the pinion angled down, the oil will all run out. DAMHIK.

  Here's how I found all this - the voyager uses the same setup. they are also known for leaking final drive oil out at the front of the swingarm, by the bevel drive. For years the "fix" was to lower the oil level in the final drives, but that doesn't sound like to good of an idea to me, so when I had one apart I really studied the design, and found the real source of the leak that nobody seemed to know existed. It was because of the pinion oring being broken.  On the voyafer, the swingarm is angled down toward the engine, so the oil runs out the swingarm forward.

  On connies, the swingarm is more level or angled down towards the final drive. The orings break on connies also, but then the oil usually stays in the back of the swingarm or seeps out and makes a messy bottom on the final drive.

  Next time you have a final drive aprt, look way back on the pinion shaft, just ahead of the pinion seal. You'll either see the oring, or the groove it's supposed to be in. there's a corresponding oring sandwitched at the front of the driveshaft spline section, where it's mounted to the driveshaft. Look on the pinion spline area, you'll see the weephole.

  This also raises the point that whenever the final drive is removed, the oring on the pinion shaft needs to be inspected. they get pinched and break pretty easily during installation or removal apparently, I've found a few busted already. I posted this all up a couple years ago... Steve

Offline George R. Young

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
  • Country: ca
    • Concours 2001 Farkles
Re: spline lubrication
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2012, 07:50:12 pm »
Here's a diagram of the pinion shaft etc. from the manual.

Is there an oil drillway thru the shaft?
65 CB160 (67-69), 69 350GTR (69-72), 72 R5, 73 RD350 (73-84), 82 XZ550 Vision (84-03), 01 Concours C10 (03-19), 89 EX250 (11-14), 00 SV650S (14-16), 03 SV650S (19-)

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1111
  • Country: 00
    • Shoodaben Engineering
Re: spline lubrication
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2012, 08:41:32 pm »


Is there an oil drillway thru the shaft?

  yes. Steve

Offline ChipP

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: spline lubrication
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2012, 06:38:48 am »
I am glad I ran across this thread. I have a '95 I just bought and have the rear drive pulled for a tire change. I noticed final drive oil on the pinion splines and thought for sure I have a leak. According to Steve it is in the design of the shaft to be this way. I could see that the PO had put moly on them and it was watered down with final drive oil. Thanks guys. Saved me some headaches.  :)

Offline George R. Young

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
  • Country: ca
    • Concours 2001 Farkles
Re: spline lubrication
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2012, 07:20:09 am »
Where's the little hole?
65 CB160 (67-69), 69 350GTR (69-72), 72 R5, 73 RD350 (73-84), 82 XZ550 Vision (84-03), 01 Concours C10 (03-19), 89 EX250 (11-14), 00 SV650S (14-16), 03 SV650S (19-)

Offline ChipP

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: spline lubrication
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2012, 08:33:23 am »
George, I will take a look tonight when I start back working on it. I didn't think about it when I had it pulled but just moving the final drive around I tipped the pinion gear end down and drive oil came out.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1111
  • Country: 00
    • Shoodaben Engineering
Re: spline lubrication
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2012, 11:31:46 am »
Where's the little hole?

in the pinion shaft. it's there, trust me. As far as what the manual sez, I've seen other issues in the manual that were incorrect, like intake cam sprocket orientation. Not saying moly paste isn't a good idea, just that it's redundant. steve