Author Topic: Should I stop my Health Insurance  (Read 18350 times)

Offline Mal

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #105 on: July 05, 2012, 10:47:39 am »
I cannot remember....but was there an outcry when auto insurance was mandated?

Hmm, lets continue the comparison...

Auto insurance doesn't cover maintenance. You pay for your own oil changes, tire changes, fluid replacements, etc.
If you fail to maintain your vehicle, and it fails, auto insurance doesn't cover your loss.
Auto insurance typically only pays if something catastrophic happens due to no fault of your own.
You can shop across state lines for your auto insurance.
Competition is very high among auto insurance providers.
For the most part, you can choose the levels of coverage that work for you with auto insurance.
When you decide to take a different job, your auto insurance goes with you.

Imagine how much cheaper health insurance would be if it followed the same outline.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #106 on: July 05, 2012, 10:51:59 am »
In VA, there is a fine/penalty/what have you, if you want to drive without insurance.  So you can drive without insurance if you pay $500, I guess kinda like the penalty/tax for the new health care initiative.  I'm not sure I understand that one, except it's a money maker for the state.  There are still many that drive without any kind of 'insurance' and don't pay the fee.  I mean if someone can pay $500 they might be able to pay the insurance premium for at least one vehicle I would think.

In going back over it, I do like most of the provisions, but I don't understand the tax/penalty for people not buying it.  So you are making people pay that can't afford it anyway.  So what happens if they (who don't pay and really don't have much of anything) have to go to the hospital?  I've got a feeling I'll be paying for them.  Now, they get treated anyway, I guess.  Would the hospital refuse?   So what if the bill collector comes calling.....no money, no home....  Is the government going to fine the homeless?  What about the illegals?

I'm not really sure how this is going to work in practice.  Seems to be awkward at best.
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Offline snarf

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #107 on: July 05, 2012, 01:47:08 pm »
I must of missed that one. When did stamps go up 39 cents in a year?
They didnt it was just a little tongue and check attempt at humor.
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Offline AZBiker

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #108 on: July 06, 2012, 06:13:47 am »
I just want a Federal government that takes an extremely narrow and literal view of the Constitution (especially the ICC) and a very broad view of the BoR.

Interesting that Awaz cannot seem to distinguish between a privilege and a right.

Disturbing that Awaz seems to be a Marxist with all his talk about the Common Good.
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Offline gPink

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #109 on: July 06, 2012, 06:33:35 am »
I just want a Federal government that takes an extremely narrow and literal view of the Constitution (especially the ICC) and a very broad view of the BoR.

Interesting that Awaz cannot seem to distinguish between a privilege and a right.

Disturbing that Awaz seems to be a Marxist with all his talk about the Common Good.

I think that's unfair. The Preamble speaks to the general welfare of the people. Does that mean it's a marxist document?

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

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Offline Strawboss

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #110 on: July 06, 2012, 07:19:32 am »
Yeah VA-Jim, I also forgot to add in Ohio, if you are in a crash, get a citation or are asked for proof of insurance and you don't have it, you simply pay a fee. You are asked to sign a statement when renewing you plates if you have car insurance, guess what EVERYBODY says? And, if you are ever stopped and get the penalty and can't get your plates UNTIL you can show proof of insurance, guess what some do? Get a policy, go down to the BMV, show proof, get their plates, come home and cancel the policy. We are a bit behind the times here in OH. So, apply this to companies, not get insurance, pay the fee, lay people off. Simplistic? Could it happen? I don't know, only time will tell.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #111 on: July 06, 2012, 07:21:18 am »
I just want a Federal government that takes an extremely narrow and literal view of the Constitution (especially the ICC) and a very broad view of the BoR.

Interesting that Awaz cannot seem to distinguish between a privilege and a right.

Disturbing that Awaz seems to be a Marxist with all his talk about the Common Good.

In the effort to keep this in 'Open' for other participants, let's not start calling people names.  In reviewing Awaz's posts I don't see how you can make the connection between him and a Marxist.  That is stretching it beyond the breaking point.

From what I've seen of the health initiative, I like most of the provisions.  At least someone is trying to do something about health care.  I haven't seen anything from the other side in that respect except negativity.  If you don't like something then propose something else.  I have a real problem with that and the legislative branch.  One party comes up with something and then the other trashes it without suggestions on compromise.  This goes for both of them.

I don't see anything in it......yet, that will negatively affect me.  Health care costs will increase, they say.  Where have they been for the last 20 years...  They've been increasing since I can remember.  It's nothing new.  My providers have changed many times over the years with the corresponding increases in premiums and the cutting of services.  At least this go round I can go to a specialist without a referral. 

We're speculating quite a bit on the potential impact of these initiatives.  I don't think we'll know for sure until they actually start being implemented.  At least one health care company said that they were keeping some of the initiatives in place even if the laws were considered un-Constitutional.  United Healthcare, I think.

All I can say is at my age (slightly corpulent 56), I need health insurance no matter what form it comes in.
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Offline blue14

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #112 on: July 06, 2012, 07:24:02 am »
Yeah VA-Jim, I also forgot to add in Ohio, if you are in a crash, get a citation or are asked for proof of insurance and you don't have it, you simply pay a fee. You are asked to sign a statement when renewing you plates if you have car insurance, guess what EVERYBODY says? And, if you are ever stopped and get the penalty and can't get your plates UNTIL you can show proof of insurance, guess what some do? Get a policy, go down to the BMV, show proof, get their plates, come home and cancel the policy. We are a bit behind the times here in OH. So, apply this to companies, not get insurance, pay the fee, lay people off. Simplistic? Could it happen? I don't know, only time will tell.

 :goodpost:     People/Companies will learn the new rules of the ballgame, and then play the game to their own self interests.  These will likely be different than the authors of the rules originally thought or intended.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #113 on: July 06, 2012, 07:24:19 am »
Yeah VA-Jim, I also forgot to add in Ohio, if you are in a crash, get a citation or are asked for proof of insurance and you don't have it, you simply pay a fee. You are asked to sign a statement when renewing you plates if you have car insurance, guess what EVERYBODY says? And, if you are ever stopped and get the penalty and can't get your plates UNTIL you can show proof of insurance, guess what some do? Get a policy, go down to the BMV, show proof, get their plates, come home and cancel the policy. We are a bit behind the times here in OH. So, apply this to companies, not get insurance, pay the fee, lay people off. Simplistic? Could it happen? I don't know, only time will tell.

I agree as well...although in VA I do get a letter from the DMV asking me for insurance information and if I don't provide it will do something to either your license or vehicle registration.  I don't remember since I haven't got one of those in awhile.

That's the big bug a boo for me is the forcing of people to buy insurance.  I'm ok with the rest of it so far.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #114 on: July 06, 2012, 07:26:24 am »
:goodpost:     People/Companies will learn the new rules of the ballgame, and then play the game to their own self interests.  These will likely be different than the authors of the rules originally thought or intended.

Yep, that's the way it's been and that's the way it will always be.  They'll find the loop holes and work them the best they can.  It's human nature.  I imagine if the laws stand through the next election that after a few years they'll be changes to them.
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Offline Strawboss

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #115 on: July 06, 2012, 07:54:13 am »
Yes, after 10 whole years, Ohio finally decided to send letters to folks on a purely random basis asking for proof of insurance. Guess what happens when you get a letter and don't have it? Yep, refer to above about a temporary policy. We also have a law that mandates you pay the full amount of your renewal for plates regardless if the vehicle is on the road or not. I can understand this. But what about seasonal vehicles? They waived the law for bikes as we are under snow for 6 months here but not for cars even though you can prove it hasn't been on the road.
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Offline AZBiker

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #116 on: July 06, 2012, 08:31:28 am »
I think that's unfair. The Preamble speaks to the general welfare of the people. Does that mean it's a marxist document?

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

But he did not say General Welfare, he said Common Good.

A phrase that pops up in Marxist/Leninist screeds over and over and over.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #117 on: July 06, 2012, 09:16:14 am »
I don't have a problem with that phrase and don't equate it to anything negative.  It's used all over the place.   

Here's one...

http://www.commongood.org/pages/about-us

Some interesting people behind that organization and I don't think they are Marxists.

Common Good....I like it. Like that organization as well.

Mal, what do think of it?

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Offline Mal

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #118 on: July 06, 2012, 09:20:07 am »
I think that's unfair. The Preamble speaks to the general welfare of the people. Does that mean it's a marxist document?

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

When the FF's talked of general welfare, they were saying that the US government will promote the state of well being, happiness, and prosperity for the whole. Not sure of your point, I hope you're not saying that the General Welfare clause supports the welfare state...

"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." - James Madison
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Offline Mal

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #119 on: July 06, 2012, 09:23:51 am »
In the effort to keep this in 'Open' for other participants, let's not start calling people names.  In reviewing Awaz's posts I don't see how you can make the connection between him and a Marxist.  That is stretching it beyond the breaking point.


Well said...

Quote
From what I've seen of the health initiative, I like most of the provisions.  At least someone is trying to do something about health care.  I haven't seen anything from the other side in that respect except negativity.  If you don't like something then propose something else.  I have a real problem with that and the legislative branch.  One party comes up with something and then the other trashes it without suggestions on compromise.  This goes for both of them.


It's not like the GOP doesn't have any ideas... http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/07/05/Paul-Ryan-We-Win-We-Repeal

He mentions Tort reform, that is one we missed in our list. Tort reform would go a long way to lowering our healthcare costs, as most physicians will run unnecessary tests just to cover their butt in case of a lawsuit. Plus, every dollar a physician or hospital pays for lawsuit insurance, is a dollar they pass onto the consumer...

Quote
I don't see anything in it......yet, that will negatively affect me.  Health care costs will increase, they say.  Where have they been for the last 20 years...  They've been increasing since I can remember.  It's nothing new.  My providers have changed many times over the years with the corresponding increases in premiums and the cutting of services.  At least this go round I can go to a specialist without a referral. 

We're speculating quite a bit on the potential impact of these initiatives.  I don't think we'll know for sure until they actually start being implemented.  At least one health care company said that they were keeping some of the initiatives in place even if the laws were considered un-Constitutional.  United Healthcare, I think.

All I can say is at my age (slightly corpulent 56), I need health insurance no matter what form it comes in.


I've done enough research to where I'm convinced our quality of care will go down, and our waiting times will go up. If the government does succeed in putting any kind of price restrictions in place, our innovation will also suffer. People/Companies don't do research out of benevolence alone, they are looking to make a profit. If there is no profit, there will be no research, or at least a lot less of it...

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest." —Adam Smith
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