Author Topic: Should I stop my Health Insurance  (Read 18334 times)

Offline Mal

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #120 on: July 06, 2012, 09:28:26 am »
I don't have a problem with that phrase and don't equate it to anything negative.  It's used all over the place.   

Here's one...

http://www.commongood.org/pages/about-us

Some interesting people behind that organization and I don't think they are Marxists.

Common Good....I like it. Like that organization as well.

Mal, what do think of it?


I've never heard of them, but if they follow their mission statement, IMO they are on the right track...

"We propose practical, bold ideas to restore common sense to all three branches of government––legislative, executive and judicial––based on the principles of individual freedom, responsibility and accountability. Our mission is to overhaul governmental and legal systems to allow people to make sensible choices. We believe Americans need to be liberated to do their best."
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #121 on: July 06, 2012, 09:35:23 am »
Thanks, got some reading to do...
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Offline W14

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #122 on: July 06, 2012, 10:04:34 am »
Referencing the posts on auto insurance in Ohio and Virginia, Virginia allows motorists to pay an uninsured motorist fee in lieu of paying for insurance. This fee does not the provide the motorist with insurance, and if the motorist causes an accident, they are personally liable. DMV keeps some of the money for admin costs, the rest goes to insurance companies to help lower overall  insurance costs. Cancelling your insurance can be costly, as insurance companies send cancellation info to the DMV. DMV, in turn, sends letters to motorists to verify insurance.  If DMV determines that you have supplied false info, you are in deep trouble. All driving and registration priviledges are suspended; the uninsured penalty is do and expensive proof of insurance is required for 3 years.

Offline AZBiker

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #123 on: July 06, 2012, 10:11:19 am »
I don't have a problem with that phrase and don't equate it to anything negative.  It's used all over the place.   

Here's one...

http://www.commongood.org/pages/about-us

Some interesting people behind that organization and I don't think they are Marxists.

Common Good....I like it. Like that organization as well.

Mal, what do think of it?


I think the subversiveness of it has ol' Saul rolling in his grave.   ;)

http://puntocracy.blogspot.com/2007/10/common-good-and-marxism.html

History calls those men the greatest who have ennobled themselves by working for the common good; experience acclaims as happiest the man who has made the greatest number of people happy.
Marx, Letter to His Father (1837)

"The Radical... is that person to whom the common good is the greatest personal value"  Saul Alinsky

It's not only that--it's Awaz's statist views on things like gun control.

Well I'm out.

I live where I do because of my political views.  It also dictates where and how I spend my money.

I've made it a habit instead of debating it on the internet I write emails and send letters to my Congresspeople and donate money to groups that I think have my best interests in mind.

I also vote and have been to a protest or three.
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Offline Awaz

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #124 on: July 06, 2012, 10:20:28 am »
Quote
He mentions Tort reform, that is one we missed in our list. Tort reform would go a long way to lowering our healthcare costs, as most physicians will run unnecessary tests just to cover their butt in case of a lawsuit. Plus, every dollar a physician or hospital pays for lawsuit insurance, is a dollar they pass onto the consumer...

Ideally, tort reform should lower the cost. But I am paranoid that hospitals and doctors may continue to charge the same rate, do the unnecessary tests and pocket the profit.

Quote
I've done enough research to where I'm convinced our quality of care will go down, and our waiting times will go up. If the government does succeed in putting any kind of price restrictions in place, our innovation will also suffer. People/Companies don't do research out of benevolence alone, they are looking to make a profit. If there is no profit, there will be no research, or at least a lot less of it...
I know one can argue that this sets a precedence on other things and I will not deny that. But in my mind, unless I am missing something, we are talking about a gov funded insurance option. I am not looking at it like it will be the only player. The private players will still exist. As you have stated, a gov funded option will most definitely be littered with low quality and poor service. Where I stand now, I will probably not take it. But from my step daughters stand-point, it may be god send. Her employer provides no insurance and so she has none. At least it is something instead of nothing at all. After all, the doctors and hospitals are not providing the service for free. You can also argue the pre-existing condition. In literal terms, removing pre-existing condition removes the definition of 'insurance' and that is a major beef for the insurance companies - and rightfully so. But if you really look at their pre-existing condition clauses, they put almost the whole wide world in there. Even if you took antibiotics for a major infection, they can put you on a wait time and tack on a surcharge to your premium. Eliminating pre-existing condition does help out a ton of people - I am sure even Bosco. You can argue that as socilaist/marxist whatever - but you cannot deny that it does help a good chunk of the people. But it just does not make business sense and that is why the mandate for all to have insurance. You just cannot have one without the other. I agree, it is an unpopular way to achieve a goal just by the principle of it - principle of freedom. But is it an effective way? I unfortunately think it is.
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Offline Awaz

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #125 on: July 06, 2012, 10:23:18 am »
I think the subversiveness of it has ol' Saul rolling in his grave.   ;)

http://puntocracy.blogspot.com/2007/10/common-good-and-marxism.html

History calls those men the greatest who have ennobled themselves by working for the common good; experience acclaims as happiest the man who has made the greatest number of people happy.
Marx, Letter to His Father (1837)

"The Radical... is that person to whom the common good is the greatest personal value"  Saul Alinsky

It's not only that--it's Awaz's statist views on things like gun control.

Well I'm out.

I live where I do because of my political views.  It also dictates where and how I spend my money.

I've made it a habit instead of debating it on the internet I write emails and send letters to my Congresspeople and donate money to groups that I think have my best interests in mind.

I also vote and have been to a protest or three.


I am entitled to my opinion. I am not judging you for yours. Peace brother.
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2008 C14

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #126 on: July 06, 2012, 10:35:58 am »
 :thumbs:
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Offline Rhino

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #127 on: July 06, 2012, 11:03:33 am »
OK, I'm late to the party here (I've been out riding for the last week and a half) so pardon me if I cover some already covered ground. Here it goes:

There is ZERO comparison between the mandate for auto insurance and this obamanation. You are required to have liability insurance to cover another motorist should you cause an accident. You are NOT required to have collision insurance to cover yourself. See the difference?

Offline Mal

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #128 on: July 06, 2012, 11:24:49 am »
Ideally, tort reform should lower the cost. But I am paranoid that hospitals and doctors may continue to charge the same rate, do the unnecessary tests and pocket the profit.

While that is a distinct possibility, I can't believe all doctors and hospitals would do so. Even if only a few lowered their rates, the others would be forced to do so because of competition.


As for the rest, there are valid arguments that Obamacare is designed to force private insurers out of business. The simple fact that the fines for employers dropping employees are so much lower than the cost of employers providing insurance go a long way to supporting that argument...
`09 ZG-1400
Western Colorado

"It is not the business of government to make men virtuous or religious, or to preserve the fool from the consequences of his own folly. Government should be repressive no further than is necessary to secure liberty by protecting the equal rights of each from aggression on the part of others" —Henry George

Offline Strawboss

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #129 on: July 06, 2012, 12:00:20 pm »
Rhino, the other guy without insurance? What does he pay? If insurance for "the other guy without it" is mandated, he should already have it right? In case I don't have it. Then why are we required to get something already there since health care is already payed for people who don't have it by people who do. Devil's advocate, thats all.
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Offline Rhino

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #130 on: July 06, 2012, 12:33:52 pm »
I would argue liability insurance is not for "the other guy without it", liability insurance is to make sure you can cover damages you might cause to another person weather or not they have any insurance.

Rhino, the other guy without insurance? What does he pay? If insurance for "the other guy without it" is mandated, he should already have it right? In case I don't have it. Then why are we required to get something already there since health care is already payed for people who don't have it by people who do. Devil's advocate, thats all.

Offline Strawboss

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #131 on: July 06, 2012, 01:03:34 pm »
You are right Rhino. You know, this particular thread is normally not a subject I follow, but its been interesting, and very civil for the most part, almost enjoyable. As stated before it is what it is and people are what they are, you aren't going to change folks opinions about things like this and many times it devolves into name calling, this time it hasn't. Refreshing.
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Offline Tim

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #132 on: July 06, 2012, 07:43:27 pm »
Using auto insurance as an example twists the health care intent. Driving, number one is a privilege not a right. If you don’t drive then you most likely will not need auto insurance. With Obama care if you breathe, you have to have it. Plus if you make under $25,000.00 a year, get ready for your 12 new taxes Obama won’t talk about. AS Nancy said they have to pass it to find out what’s in it…..and it isn’t looking good.
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Offline Strawboss

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #133 on: July 07, 2012, 08:35:03 am »
Well, yes, of course. What folks were comparing was a mandate, not a complete apples to apples comparison, it was just an easy analogy many would understand and relate to. If you drive insurance is a mandate in many areas. Of course not everyone drives, but everyone who does drive must get it, and when they get it, theres many choices, and if you wanted, you don't even need to get it, just pay a penalty if required to prove it.
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Offline Mal

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Re: Should I stop my Health Insurance
« Reply #134 on: July 10, 2012, 09:44:03 am »
"Actually, Paul Ryan’s alternative to Obamacare—the Patient’s Choice Act—proposes an enormous expansion of coverage. Among other things, it would transform today’s tax exclusion for employer-provided coverage into a capped universal health-care tax credit, which people could use to buy coverage or care regardless of their circumstances. A similar proposal by John McCain in the 2008 campaign was projected to reduce the number of uninsured Americans by roughly 21 million. Over time the effect would likely be even greater than that since this system would create an enormous incentive for insurers to offer attractive low-premium plans that could be purchased for the amount made available by the credit (simply put, neither consumers nor insurers would leave billions of dollars on the table unclaimed, and the enormous competition among insurers for that money would yield appealing options). So while it wouldn’t always involve insurance as comprehensive as Obamacare would require, it would be likely to get us closer to universal access to health insurance than Obamacare—and without the kinds of violations of individual liberty, the Constitution, and the laws of economics involved with Obamacare."

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/304823/dream-command-economics-yuval-levin

IMO, eliminating the tax rebates to employers for offering health care, and creating tax rebates to individuals is the main answer, for all of the reasons stated above...
`09 ZG-1400
Western Colorado

"It is not the business of government to make men virtuous or religious, or to preserve the fool from the consequences of his own folly. Government should be repressive no further than is necessary to secure liberty by protecting the equal rights of each from aggression on the part of others" —Henry George