Author Topic: Liquid cooled Harley motor-new patent  (Read 3546 times)

Offline Strawboss

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Liquid cooled Harley motor-new patent
« on: July 05, 2012, 11:28:33 am »
I was flipping through the July 2012 Cycleworld and saw an article concerning a new patent HD applied for back in 2010. Limited water cooling for the heads only of its big twin motors. The writing is on the wall for anyone still making air cooled engines and HD is trying to forstall its going to liquid cooling for as long as it can. It uses water passages cast into the head around the exhaust valves. No mention of where the radiator will be, most likely it will be small and located high and out of sight. Remember the Yamaha Virago? It had an air scoop that gathered and channeled air from its opening at the top of the frame and ran over the front cylinder to cool the normally hotter rear cylinder. The rear cylinder actually ran cooler than the front I've been told. I'm sure HD can do something like that with the radiator unit. Its an interesting concept, I hope it works out for them as their target market most likely wants no part of changing the look of its motor. We'll see.
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Offline Awaz

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Re: Liquid cooled Harley motor-new patent
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2012, 10:27:51 am »
I saw that report too. They need that to keep with the big boys! lol

I do like their V-rod - too bad their target market is not warm to it. Many a times I thought about selling my cruiser and getting a v-rod.
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Offline Strawboss

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Re: Liquid cooled Harley motor-new patent
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2012, 11:43:05 am »
The bike just looks uncomfortable, most all HD owners don't feel its a "real" HD, a great motor in the wrong frame. Put that thing a ST frame and see how it sells. I'm hoping this is what they are doing behind the scenes, R&D on a new touring or ST using that motor....probably not. If they are using V-Rod sales solely on whether or not they are doing reasearch on other bikes with that motor they will be hurting years down the road when air cooled motors are basically banned due to regulatory mandates.
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Offline lt1

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Re: Liquid cooled Harley motor-new patent
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2012, 12:39:51 pm »
It is my understanding that the V-Rod is selling well outside the U.S.A..  When HD left AMF, they had to make a decision as to where to focus their limited resources - their traditional market, or the rest of us (ie the Nova project) - and they chose the traditional market.  This has worked quite well for them.  They have made some attempts to "reach out" with the V-Rod and the Buell, but as an established company, they have learned to stick with their core product and core customer base.  And they are probably right to do so.

We like to pretend that we as motorcyclists are bold and different, and that just the HD crowd fights progress, but the facts seem to indicate that we are all stick-in-the-muds.  We fight innovation and change tooth and nail, both in styling and technology.  Some examples:  hub steering, turbo's, fuel injection, electric power, diesel, ABS, enclosed bikes, KiPass recumbents, the original Katana, Pacific Coast, GTS, DN-01, and much more.

BTW, you are aware that BMW is switching to liquid cooling on its upcoming R1250's?  The boxer twin was dumped years ago, but brought back because of demand by the traditionalists.  So HD is only one of many subject to the forces of tradition.
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Offline Strawboss

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Re: Liquid cooled Harley motor-new patent
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2012, 01:24:08 pm »
I'm not so sure I would go as far as saying we all fight change. If HD's idea of reaching out is with the V-Rod and hiding Buell's in the dusty back corners of the showroom, again, they'll be hurting in a few years. Theres always going to be folks who would buy those things mentioned as being rejected by the majority of buyers. When a company like Yamaha makes a hub steering bike thats overweight, overpriced and underpowered and because of it sells about 100 of them here, I wouldn't say thats us fighting innovation. Thats just one of the examples you give though. Katana-weird, DN-o1, weird, overpriced, turbo, not needed, Diesel, when gas goes to $10/gal sure, electric power, only for urban areas. HD makes more money off the clothes and accessories it sells than the bikes they make. Brilliant marketing, I'm aware of their traditional minded styling and marketing, retro is BIG in this country, as is tradition.   I thought it an interesting way of forstalling the inevitable for HD, again, I hope it works and will be interested to see one. I did not hear about BMW, I'd like to see that one too.
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Offline lt1

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Re: Liquid cooled Harley motor-new patent
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2012, 11:36:23 am »
Thanks, you confirm my point better than I could have hoped. :thumbs:
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Offline AZBiker

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Re: Liquid cooled Harley motor-new patent
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2012, 12:28:03 am »
HD makes more money off the clothes and accessories it sells than the bikes they make.

Incorrect.
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Offline ugocon

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Re: Liquid cooled Harley motor-new patent
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2012, 01:05:28 am »
Regarding the V-Rod, I personally think that it is one of the most beautiful bikes around, in terms of pure design.

Unfortunately HD made some weird choices that spoiled the success of the bike.
The V-Rod is a power bike, good for acceleration and with a wonderful engine that could be a reference on the market, but they put this engine in a Custom frame with footpegs too forward to handle properly the bike.
As a matter of fact the model that is more wanted around is the MY2006 (if I'm not wrong...) where they mounted standard mid pegs, making the bike dealing better the big power available.
On the market you find few kits for moving the pegs in mid position.
But after MY06, they mounted always advanced footpegs, so...  ???

Just to give you an idea of the reception the V-Rod had in Italy, talking to the dealer he told me that sales are not bad, but 90% of times the Customer comes back not later than one year trading for another "classic" Harley...
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Offline Awaz

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Re: Liquid cooled Harley motor-new patent
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2012, 10:33:15 am »
Harley did try a Street Rod (if I remember correctly) where the pegs are swept back. I sat on one and it did really felt good. But you cannot sell that bike on a HD shop. I think they did it for one year as special and then stopped it. If I remeber right, it got voted as best cruiser by either Cycleworld or Motorcyclist for that year.
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Offline Strawboss

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Re: Liquid cooled Harley motor-new patent
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2012, 02:51:59 pm »
You are correct AZBiker, I should have done some more research, I think I was confused with some other numbers I read from a few years back about something else. For 2010, HD made 808.8 million from bike sales, and 215.4 million from parts and clothing.
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Offline sherob

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Re: Liquid cooled Harley motor-new patent
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2012, 02:58:00 pm »
Harley did try a Street Rod (if I remember correctly) where the pegs are swept back. I sat on one and it did really felt good. But you cannot sell that bike on a HD shop. I think they did it for one year as special and then stopped it. If I remeber right, it got voted as best cruiser by either Cycleworld or Motorcyclist for that year.

Fat Bob came that way... they stopped that option after a year. IIRC.  That was the only HD model I really liked, alot!  8)
Rob
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Offline AZBiker

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Re: Liquid cooled Harley motor-new patent
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2012, 05:59:49 pm »
Harley did try a Street Rod (if I remember correctly) where the pegs are swept back. I sat on one and it did really felt good. But you cannot sell that bike on a HD shop. I think they did it for one year as special and then stopped it. If I remeber right, it got voted as best cruiser by either Cycleworld or Motorcyclist for that year.

You are correct, but unfortunately it didn't sell.   :'(
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Offline Bourne2Ride

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Re: Liquid cooled Harley motor-new patent
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2012, 04:13:42 pm »
Incorrect.
AZBiker, you are correct. Revenue from Harley-Davidson motorcycles was $1.01 billion. Revenue from Parts and Accessories (P&A), which consists of Genuine Motor Parts and Genuine Motor Accessories, totaled $182.9 million... Revenue from General Merchandise, which consists of MotorClothes™ apparel and collectibles, totaled $68.6 million...
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