Author Topic: Bike will not run  (Read 697 times)

Offline rar

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Bike will not run
« on: June 12, 2019, 02:10:16 pm »
 I had started the bike (2010 concours), was headed down my drive way and the dash flashed and everything, including the engine shut down. I press down the key and turn to the on position.  The Key symbol shows on the dash and then you hear a click under the key and the bike powers off.  The dash never comes completely on.  I brought it to Pompton Sport on Rt 23 in Wayne NJ.  They said they could not figure out what it is.  They said they contacted Kawasaki and they did not know what it is.  So there it sits for the last 3 weeks. Any ideas of how to figure this out??

Offline maxtog

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Re: Bike will not run
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2019, 03:05:24 pm »
I don't think any of us have enough information to speculate much except for what ends up being the issue some 80%+ of the time:  battery and connections (battery and grounds).  Presumably a shop would know this, but the Concours is *particularly* sensitive to poor connections at the battery and frame grounds and sensitive to poor condition batteries.  If you want to discuss further, you will need to supply information such as:

* Mileage
* Other problems you had/have
* When you bought it
* What maintenance was done and when
* What mods have you or anyone else done and when
* Has it ever been in an accident
* Are you the original owner
* How old the battery is
* If you use a trickle charger
* What has that shop has done so far
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline rar

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Re: Bike will not run
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2019, 09:08:30 am »
Bike has 32,000 miles. No other problems, purchased in 2010, all regular maintenance(including plugs and valves, only mod was additional front lights a couple years ago done by installer.  Never been in accident.  Battery is 1 1/2 years old but is fine.  I do not use a trickle charger but tested it and it puts out 12.8V. Do not know what the shop has done.   They are currently not responding to my calls.  Will try to find out what they have done.

Offline Conniesaki

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Re: Bike will not run
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2019, 09:18:11 am »
Easy first step is to hook jumper cables from your car to the bike just to make sure battery power isn't the issue.

Are the battery terminals clean?

Other than that, it could be dirty ground connections.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Bike will not run
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2019, 03:03:48 pm »
Will try to find out what they have done.

Of particular interest would be: battery load test, cleaning of battery terminals/clamps and frame grounds (eyes and frame), and all fuses checked.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Kman

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Re: Bike will not run
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2019, 06:08:57 pm »
Is the bike stored where mice etc. can get at it? If so, maybe a  "chewed" wiring issue. Also, see http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=24107.0

Offline ginzburg

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Re: Bike will not run
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2019, 11:42:03 pm »
I tried to read about the ground issues recently. I could see the two right by the battery. Those are the easiest to clean obviously and seem like they could definitely be a problem if they got loose or dirty. I don't know if the left is referred to to as the main frame ground or not. The one on the right I am pretty sure is called the engine ground. There is also a fuse to the left of the battery that is obvious if you know it is there.

There is also a ground under the fuel tank where three wires share the same connection point. I thought that was a very suspicious area and would be worth checking. It was way easier than I thought it would be to lift up the tank. There were basically two bolts on the front and two on the back and the tank could be placed pretty far out of the way without disconnecting anything. This ground had three wires that sandwiched together and connected to a bracket. That bracket then connects to the frame. One mine, the bracket didn't seem too well connected and had quite a bit of residual paint.

The previously linked post mentions the ignition relay. I really thought that was something worth trying. This is a very common relay so you could probably get one locally. I am pretty sure my Chevy has one for the cooling fan. I sort of got suckered by this thread https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-6755.html and got one at Napa for about $15. Advance, etc. list these cheaper ones, but my stores didn't show any stock. I think all bikes have this relay, but I am not 100% sure.

I also saw some rectangular ground junctions near the mirrors that were wrapped up. These didn't seem suspicious at all. They seem very solid and I wouldn't suspect a problem with them after looking at them.

What ultimately solved my problem was just pushing around on the wires under the gas tank with the key on. Pushing on the grounds under the tank would make the gauges move. I massaged wires and got super lucky because I hit a spot that would make the bike turn back on in the large loom on the left under the tank. That loom was very easy to unseal and inspect, but you would need to expect to be able to reseal it somehow with tape or adhesive.




Offline kzz1king

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Re: Bike will not run
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2019, 09:33:00 am »
So you are up and running now?
2010 CONCOURS
1974 Z-1

Offline maxtog

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Re: Bike will not run
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2019, 03:35:19 pm »
So you are up and running now?


Ginzburg (his thread http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=24107.0 ) or the original poster?
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline kzz1king

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Re: Bike will not run
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2019, 09:45:50 pm »
 I see my mistake. Question answered😊
2010 CONCOURS
1974 Z-1

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Bike will not run
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2019, 10:31:20 pm »

What ultimately solved my problem was just pushing around on the wires under the gas tank with the key on. Pushing on the grounds under the tank would make the gauges move. I massaged wires and got super lucky because I hit a spot that would make the bike turn back on in the large loom on the left under the tank. That loom was very easy to unseal and inspect, but you would need to expect to be able to reseal it somehow with tape or adhesive.

well that's all settled.. problem fixed... please report on the "reliabiity" of what you just did, and longevity until the next no-op.


or is it?
I see my mistake. Question answered😊
If you paid some tech to do that, at a Kaw dealer, and paid then $400 bucks.. and he told you "fixed".....well, we all know what follows that one
now, tell us all what exact wire was the culprit, .

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline maxtog

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Re: Bike will not run
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2019, 05:58:17 am »
well that's all settled.. problem fixed... please report on the "reliabiity" of what you just did, and longevity until the next no-op.

Yeah, that is my concern.  For me, such "fixes" with electrical stuff never last long.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline ginzburg

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Re: Bike will not run
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2019, 08:54:31 am »
Yeah, that is my concern.  For me, such "fixes" with electrical stuff never last long.

I am hoping that I am misinterpreting the sentiment about how long a repair should last.

The best method to repair wires is to crimp them. That is how the factory does it. It can be error prone though as you need to have the correct sized crimp and crimpers for the wire you are using. You then need to make sure the junction doesn't vibrate by using some tape for strain relief. In my case, the existing strain relief tape was no longer holding since it was degraded due to moisture.


Offline ginzburg

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Re: Bike will not run
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2019, 09:08:57 am »
or is it?If you paid some tech to do that, at a Kaw dealer, and paid then $400 bucks.. and he told you "fixed".....well, we all know what follows that one
now, tell us all what exact wire was the culprit, .

I was confused about who has the bike now. I misread it as the bike got sent home from the shop and the owner was on his own. Going through the manual is a daunting task. I don't know how the shop would approach this issue given that they can't determine the problem.

I meant to add more about how I should have been able to diagnose this broken wire.

If the KIPASS signal relay had no power, would it make sense that the bike shuts down and the then only displays the key icon? I did have that condition at least a few times. Typically I could turn on the key though. I don't know enough about how it works to determine if this could be a similar problem as rar's.

In my case it was one of the white wires. I did not actually determine which one it was, but the white wire I think it was looks to go to fusebox #3 from the steering lock. It then appears to become a red wire that returns to the KIPASS signal relay. That is the relay I heard clicking. For some reason I thought the white wire goes to the steering lock, but it make more sense that it comes from there.

The KIPASS signal relay is under the left dash panel. You should be able to measure it for power without too much trouble. The steering lock connector is also under that panel. In hindsight, I could have measured the wire at the steering lock, the fusebox and the signal relay to diagnose this broken wire. Testing the KIPASS signal and the steering lock is covered in the manual. Hopefully Rar will be able to find out what they have checked already.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Bike will not run
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2019, 12:06:33 pm »
I am hoping that I am misinterpreting the sentiment about how long a repair should last.

We are referring to this:

"What ultimately solved my problem was just pushing around on the wires"

I wouldn't expect that would last long (it isn't a "repair").  But ya never know!
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc